User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7 The Bookmarks Toolbar should not be shown by default on new Firefox installations. Most people don't use it, so we should not take up those people's valuable screen space. If you decide not to do the above, we should at least check if a user uses the toolbar. If they do not use the toolbar for 3 or 4 sessions, we should hide it for them. Reproducible: Always

*** Bug 355453 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

(In reply to comment #0) > Most people don't use it A link to your user behavioral studies would help. All I have to go on are screenshots in bugs, which say that bug filers most assuredly do use it.

> All I have to go on are > screenshots in bugs, which say that bug filers most assuredly do use it. Bug filers are the most technologically advanced of Firefox users. I have no studies. I just have experience talking with friends and watching as they use Firefox.

Most people who I know uses only the toolbar, (I use it also for quick-access) so don't turn it off, some people won't find it anymore (In reply to comment #0) > so we should not take up those > people's valuable screen space. The bookmarks sidebar takes more place, except for the ones who know AiOS (All in One Sidebar extension)

The last paragraph of Jason's first comment is telling how this could be implemented to not to annoy people, that are using the toolbar regularly. To get statistics how people are really using the bookmarks toolbar the Mozilla Labs Test Pilot should help: https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/

testpilot shouldn't help, because only adwanced users and enthusiasts use it. Maybe, idea about "expiration" can be good, with appendixes: 1. not "not use the toolbar for 3 or 4 sessions" I use toolbar all the time, but it will disappear, if my automatically started with widows browser will be rebooted 3 times without toolbar operations? Maybe, you mean "user actively use (not just have window opened) browser at least 10 hour without any toolbar operation"? 2. all that timers should be off _forewer_ on any toolbar edition.

(In reply to comment #6) > testpilot shouldn't help, because only adwanced users and enthusiasts use it. Why is testpilot only offered to advanced users? The Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program is always offered to *all* Microsoft software users AFAIK. > Maybe, idea about "expiration" can be good, with appendixes: > 1. not "not use the toolbar for 3 or 4 sessions" > > I use toolbar all the time, but it will disappear, if my automatically started > with widows browser will be rebooted 3 times without toolbar operations? > Maybe, you mean "user actively use (not just have window opened) browser at > least 10 hour without any toolbar operation"? Good idea. > 2. all that timers should be off _forewer_ on any toolbar edition. Another good idea.

> Why is testpilot only offered to advanced users? The Microsoft Customer > Experience Improvement Program is always offered to *all* Microsoft software > users AFAIK. What Igor means is, that Test Pilot is not communicated to the people at the moment. So just experienced users and enthusiasts know about it and install it. So the Mozilla guys would need to tell the standard user about it more obviously e. g. via getfirefox.com and inside the Firefox help menu via a point like "Help to improve Firefox". But this would be something for a seperate issue. > Maybe, idea about "expiration" can be good, with appendixes: > 1. not "not use the toolbar for 3 or 4 sessions" > > I use toolbar all the time, but it will disappear, if my automatically started > with widows browser will be rebooted 3 times without toolbar operations? > Maybe, you mean "user actively use (not just have window opened) browser at > least 10 hour without any toolbar operation"? Yes, that was how I interpreted it. Firefox need to recognise, if the user did something with the toolbar. So if he used it or changed it. > 2. all that timers should be off _forewer_ on any toolbar edition. And of course this is the result of using or editing the toolbar.

Changing summary to "The Bookmarks Toolbar should hide itself if I install Fx then ignore the toolbar for several sessions". This is to reflect the fact that we have no data on who uses the toolbar. Can someone please confirm this bug now?

(In reply to comment #8) > So the Mozilla guys would need to tell the standard user about it more > obviously e. g. via getfirefox.com and inside the Firefox help menu via a point > like "Help to improve Firefox". But this would be something for a seperate > issue. FYI: I discussed self-selection bias with jono on IRC #labs today. He told me they're currently thinking about various ways to counter such bias.

same as bug 574514.