The cookie prefs should be part of security policies. Users are likely to want to set cookie policies along other security policies. The user should be able to set special cookie policies for sites like Bugzilla and a general policy for other sites.

hopefully all security and privacy oriented preference panels will be moved under a parent category called Privacy and Security --analogous to the one under the Tasks menu. would that help?

->mcafee...or should it be ben? methinks this blocks bug 38966.

*** Bug 77100 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

chris and vishy: don't think this should be a mozilla0.9.1 item. we have more critical stuff to do. what is the impact of not doing this? we're inclined to minus this or at least move to mozilla0.9.2.

*** Bug 78079 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

ugh! the Back button *killed* my comment...trying again... i'm confused as to why this has been minused for catfood and future'd while it still has nsbeta1+. so, i'm renominating. this has been a long-standing issue: too many subcategories under the Advanced parent category. now that there's a Privacy and Security parent category, we should move all these subcategories under there. it just seems silly not to do so, unless the work to do it is actually difficult [let me know if it is!]. should this be reassigned to another engr, if this is a matter of not enough cycles? thx!

More keyword nominations.

Could someone please explain what this bug report is saying. I've never been able to understand it. Are we talking about adding a new entry to the prefs panel called "security policies"? If so, can someone please post a spec showing where that entry will go in the pref tree and what the items under that entry will be.

PSM created a Privacy/Security category, so people want all of that stuff grouped into it. [warning, my patch probably doesn't work, not sure why, overlays are wierd things] However, i'm just a reader, i don't read minds, so i could be wrong. Basically, Advanced isn't a great place for this stuff. As for the one thing i moved in preftree, i have no idea what that is, i'd guess it's CAPS.

timeless wrote: > PSM created a Privacy/Security category Where is this catagory. I don't see it in my prefs panel. My build is of a tree that I pulled yesterday. That's why I am confused by this bug report. Is this only in the commercial tree (my build is for bugzilla)? If so, this should be a bugscape bug report and not a mozilla one. Do you get this only if you have "BUILD_PSM=1" environment variable set? As of a few weeks ago (I guess when PSM2 hit) I haven't been able to get a successful build unless I removed that variable.

The new Privacy/Security category is only present if PSM is installed (or built with the browser). PSM adds this as an overlay. Since the proposal is to move other items to this category, it will have to be present in the basic product rather than coming from PSM. I'm currently working on prefs for PSM, so I volunteer to work on this. I also have bug 70651 open. I can turn that one into work to add the category, and leave this one to move the current Advanced items. (and make this bug depend on 70651). Comments or objections?

terry, that sounds good to me. thx!

Terry, Could you please post a description of what the preftree will look like with your patch. Thanks.

I think the patch has the right stuff. Maybe ben or timeless could review? I'd also like to get positive comments on this layout from morse and german if possible, since they were part of early discussions on this feature. Thanks.

It seems strange to have PSM (certificates) at the top level and cookies/images/passwords/forms as subitems under that. A more consistent thing is to have PSM as one of the subitems as well. But then you'll have to figure out what to put on the top level.

german's right. but I don't know what to put their either :( One posibility is CAPS but that's really a bit advanced.

s/german/morse/ sorry

> > A more consistent thing is to have PSM as one of the subitems as well. But > > then you'll have to figure out what to put on the top level. >... > I don't know what to put their either :( This is the point where you rediscover what I've been saying for the past one and a half years -- that the prefs shouldn't *have* panels for category branches as well as category leaves. Not only does it cause illogical hierarchies such as this one, but the small size of the twisties makes it unneccessarily difficult to get to the child categories, and the branch/twisty distinction has very poor discoverability.</rant> What on earth is `Images' doing in the `Privacy and Security' category? If someone asks me how to turn images off in Mozilla, and I tell him to look in the `Privacy and Security' category of prefs, he'll think I'm joking.

The image manager is considered a privacy feature, since it's purpose (or at least one purpose) is to keep your browser from fetching images from ad servers which may track your movements. Notice that "Image Manager" appears underneath "Privacy and Security" in the task menu. I just noticed that I used "Security and Privacy" rather than "Privacy and Security" in my patch. I'll fix that. As for panels on the categories, I'll go with what people what. I can certainly move the items that have in the category panel to another place, such as "Security Managers" or something.

Images are already in the privacy-and-security section of the task menu. The rationale is that images can bring in cookies. Also images can be used as web bugs. So loading of imnages does have privacy implications.

Oops, mid-air collision. But it shows that Terry and I are on the same wavelength.

If it makes more sense to move Manage Certificates and Manage Security Devices to a a sub-pref panel, I'd be fine with that. It makes some sense to leave "Reset Security Settings" attached to the "Privacy and Security" panel, but it's scope would have to cover all the sub-pane prefs.

Yes, I'm very well aware of why the image prefs are in the `Privacy & Security' category. But that's only because, like Terry and Morse, I know about Web bugs and cookies and stuff. For the average Joe in some European country where Internet access is charged by the megabyte, who just wants to turn images off, having this pref in the `Privacy & Security' category makes no sense at all.

mpt: what is your counter-proposal? Question: will the image manager tab ship with the Netscape build? If not, then perhaps the debate over where it should go should center on more advanced Mozilla developers. Average Joe will not be using the Mozilla binaries. In that case, it seems appropriate to call out the security aspects of image management, especially since that's how it's grouped in the Tasks/Privacy and Security pulldowns.

Either Navigator or Appearance. Navigator under the assumption it's a web browser function. Appearance because it also affects Mail.

I agree with Timeless that `Appearance' would probably be the best place for image prefs for now, after `Fonts' and `Colors'. Ultimately I think there should be a `Display' branch which deals with all aspects of content display (fonts, colors, images, cookies, filters, style sheets, etc), distinct from the branches dealing with individual applications. (I have a truckload of ASCII art if you want to see it.)

I need a decision on this stuff. Here's the plan. 1) I'm going to move Images under "Privacy and Security" to be consistant with the Task menu. If you don't like it file a bug on that (both prefs and tasks) 2) I'm going to leave the certificate and device managers on the first page. That's the way it appears now. If you don't like that, open a new bug. I'd like an r= from ddrinan on the PSM changes and an r/sr= from ben on the whole (since it's prefs related).

Patch looks good to me. r=ddrinan.

Please don't check this in with certificates on the first page. It looks really silly to have cookies et al as a subframe under certificates.

I've modified this proposal: 1. There will be no content (by default) on the Privacy and Security pane 2. Added a Certificates panel to hold "Manage" buttons and 3. Moved choice of auto/manual cert select from SSL (which was long) to the Certificates panel Comments?

unsure if this has been clearly addressed: when this is checked in, how will the preferences appear in builds without psm? the reason i ask is that by default [at present] my linux mozilla debug doesn't build with psm by default. [there's prolly a bug on that whose number i'm not remembering at the moment.] tia!

Without PSM, the prefs will appear as in the screenshot, except that there will be no SSL or Certificates panel. The Privacy and Security heading will still be there, with the items moved from Advanced underneath.

Need sr for this latest patch (blizzard, ben ?) Top level-panel for P&S will remain blank for now. A preference reset function may be proposed for that location (as a separate project).

sr=blizzard

hrm, blank toplevel panel if psm isn't built? mpt, german, d'you have suggestions for that?

I am creating a mock-up for what we might do with that top-panel... The ideas are to use it for a "reset all security & privacy prefs" button, and below to keep a summary of what the user's prefs are set to. also would be nice to include a slider like microsoft has, so that the user can choose from 3 or 4 buckets of pref selections.

My guess is that it's too late to add features like "security sliders" and "reset all security prefs". We would not make 0.9.1, and we probably don't have time to do the work for 0.9.2 either. Are there any other Privacy/Security prefs that are squeezed into some other panel that might find a nice home on this top panel?

Two things: The recent build that I am using (ID: 2001051404) still has most of the privacy and security categories under "advanced" rather than under "Privacy and Security" (which now still only has SSL as a subcategory). I just want to make sure we are still planning on making this change and including passwords, cookies, etc. under Privacy and Security. The second thing is that I see a "Reset Settings" button already in this build. Can we retain that for the top panel?

First, the builds from this morning have the changes. They seem to all be there. Second, the "Reset Settings" was a feature we planned to reset just the crypto features. I'm not sure if we'll have time to get it in. Also, if we move it to the top panel, then we probably need to make it apply to all the prefs in the subordinate panels. That would be a pretty cool feature, but I know my team can't commit to that work. Thoughts?

jeremy, bob, et al. i've spun off a separate bug for the blank toplevel Privacy and Security panel issue, for easier tracking [at least for me :) ]: bug 81526. adding necessary dependency...

*** Bug 75129 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 88526 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

What do my images have to do with my privacy and security? Because of this move, few people are going to find the image preferences, specifically the much wanted looping pref (see bug 88526). I think we should move back this panel for rtm.

Okay, I read through this bug. I see the location of Images has already been discussed, and agree that Appearance is the best place we have for it for now. It doesn't make sense in Mozilla builds, and makes even less sense in Netscape builds because they don't have the image manager. I don't understand why we need a separate bug for tasks and prefs. But then, I don't understand why we knowingly put Images where it is, all for the purpose of being consistent with the horrible Tasks menu, just so we could worry about it later. Now it's later; we already have bugs on the Task menu, let's use this one -- which caused this regression -- to fix the location of the Images panel...

Removing nsenterprise nomination.

Don't understand why this bug report is still open. Cookies and images have long since been moved from the advanced section to the privacy/security section. Closing this one out as fixed.

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