The Mozilla icon is the worst of any browser out there. If we want to make a good first impression on users, we need a kick-ass icon. How about staging a contest for the best icon design or something? My personal preference would be something based on either the red dinosaur graphic or the traditional Mozilla lizard. I can't even figure out what the current icon is supposed to be. Let's come up with something better.

updating component and setting default owner.

Not a Netscape issue.

This bug?s status should be changed to enhancement as it is a feature request not a bug.

On Mac OS, the current icon is based on the old pre-Modern skin. And yes, it's both ugly and boring. On Windows (last time I checked), the current icon is a blue gecko. But if you can work out that it's a gecko, you're lucky; and a gecko is inappropriate anyway because Gecko is just one of the many bits which make up Mozilla. I'm working on a new set of icons for Mozilla, Navigator, Messenger, Composer, Address Book, Mozilla document etc, which I'll submit to netscape.public.mozilla.ui for criticism/adjustment/trashing/approval. Reassigning to self.

FWIW the Linux Mozilla icon is the red star logo used on the Mozilla.party page http://www.mozilla.org/party/2000/ Is it possible to use separate icons for different mozilla components like it is with current versions of Netscape? I find it fairly useful to have a visual indication on what window I'm opening (a mail, news, browser, etc). If it's not possible I think a feature request should be made if it hasn't already.

That depends on the OS. The problem is that in Mozilla, each visible component (Navigator, Messenger, Address Book, etc) is not an application itself, but a document which the Mozilla application opens. * On Windows, you can only have one icon for each document type. * On Mac OS you can give documents custom icons, but this might require a lot of work on the part of the Mozilla installer (as far as I know, .xpi packages are just .zip files, and .zip files don't know about icons at all). * I don't know how icons get assigned to documents on Unix, but I'd guess it's the same way as Windows. Presumably Netscape are going to solve this problem in some way as well, otherwise the only recognizable icon to click on will be the one which says `Netscape 6'. Asa probably knows who would be in charge of that sort of thing ...

Attached red star icon in PNG and GIF formats. Reassigning to Simon, who should know how to get the icon into the Mac build, and who to reassign this to to get it working on other platforms. Generic `Mozilla document' icon coming shortly.

This icon sucks. I'm not going to check that in.

What would suck less?

Well, what do you want the icon to look like? It needs more detail that a simple red star (which gives the impression of a Communist manifesto). See also the Apple HIG for what application icons should look like.

Simon, the time for complaining about red stars was March 1998. I think it's too late for that. I was thinking a simple red star for Mozilla, just as a simple smiley face is used for Mac OS, a simple footprint is used for GNOME, a curvy window is used for Windows, etc. Because this is really the icon for the Mozilla platform, and with any platform it's hard to have a metaphor which is anything to do with what the platform allows you to do. More complex and specific icons would be made for the applications themselves (Navigator, Messenger, Composer, Address Book) and for their documents (Mozilla Registry, Preferences, HTML document ...). I take the point that the one I attached is rather ... flat, though. I'll try to fix it up.

Bear in mind that this icon represents the Mozilla *browser* which is based on Mozilla technology. So the icon represents an app built with the technology, not the technology itself. Allow me to quote a line from the original bug: "we need a kick-ass icon".

Trouble is, for quite a while, the `Mozilla' icon is going to be the one appearing at the end of the Mac's menu bar no matter what Mozilla-based application you happen to be running -- whether it be Mozilla Navigator, or Pagman, or Aphrodite, or ThemeBuilder, or XMLTerm, or whatever. When I open the `Mozilla' icon I might not get a browser at all. (Actually, I have it set up to start an e-mail program ...) That's why this icon needs to be a generic one for the Mozilla platform; The `Mozilla Navigator' icon, on the other hand, will definitely look like it represents a browser (and will more closely follow the Mac guidelines about the shape of application icons).

Giving to German as per beppe.

Perhaps you could attach it in a format that I can view on Mac (like a GIF).

Ugh, the red star. Didn't I refuse to check that in already?

The newest attachment is a blue 'm', not a red star. Perhaps you were looking at the wrong one.

*** Bug 56632 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I should not have this bug. The mozilla icon is decided by the mozilla community not me. Forwarding it to ben.

We really need some better... Changing from M18 to 0.9.

Eugene Savitsky, the Target Milestone field is reserved for the bug's Assignee. Please do not change that field. Thank you. If you would like to suggest that a bug be fixed bay a particular time you can use the appropriate keyword.

How about a competition on Mozillazine os some other site that is about mozilla? First, we set up rules about what icons should be painted, and a list of criteria (number of colors, size, the meaning of each icon, i18n and l10n consideration and so on) and then the community gets a couple of weeks to produce suggestions. Then the community gets a chance to vote, maybe after some kind of jury has picked the "best" ones. The only problem I can see is what to do if the "wrong" icon(s) wins.

sounds like a great idea. This ball needs to get rolling soon!

I'd like to see smth more friendly... I don't like the early communistic style of the icons. Just my opinion.

I would also strongly advise against this potentially controversial and offensive symbolism. Don't get me wrong, there are many good things about Communism, but the general public (and I) would probably prefer to have a symbol that is more "uniquely" associable with Mozilla and not conjure up immages of cold-war eras.

If we must use a star and an "M", then i suggest something that looks more western (or american) like using the colors red, white and bluse (e.g. blue background, white star, red "M"). The M font looks like some child skribbled it. I would suggest something like the "cancun.ttf font (bold, yet playful). I also like the idea (in the example above from Asa ) of having a letter for each module (B = browser), but i would suggest writing the words out across the bottom of the icon (BROWSER). Maybe a small symbol (e.g. broser pic) could appear at the top right of each icon (the symbol should always be at the same location to make quick visual ID easier. I'm working on an icon now...

Eugene and Peter, I don't think we really care what "the general public ... would probably prefer." Mozilla is not anything that the general public should have to worry about. We are not an enduser distribution. Just like the general public don't need to care about the linux kernel (end users get RedHat or some other distribution which included that kernel) they don't need to care about Mozilla.

I would be VERY careful with such statements. Although it is cool to think one is working n some personal project, the general public just MIGHT start caring when they realize that Mozilla is the best choice of browsers. Netscape has already dropped the ball by realeasing an unfinished product. I was a longtime Netscape user, but am currently planning on only using Mozilla from now on. I wouldn't be surprized if, once Mozilla is "all purdied up", that more people start going this route. Let's keep an open ,mind about Mozilla becoming VERY public in the next three months! The future of browsing (without M$) may depend on it :-)

adding myself to CC because the absurdity of this conversation is so entertaining

I like the gecko, and not because i made it. Yay for the current icon!

The main application icon really needs an icon that is really crisp, anti- aliased, and looks good at 16x16 pixels. Any ideas?

Icons are never larger than 128x128 [or 256x256 if you consider the alpha channel of macos x]. At last count, we need 46 icons.

*** Bug 61700 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I'm taking this. I have some stuff that i have shown to timeless. Will work on in spare time... Also, 61700 is a dupe of this, not a dependant of this.

I'll actually remove the dependancy...

Adding CC

timeless is also working on a set of icons in bug 27746.

cc to self. kerz, how is this coming along? Is there, in fact, going to be a mozillazine contest? I think there should be community input on this-- after all, a lot of people are going to be seeing this icon. Personally, I think the contest is the best idea-- there are probably some good artists who want to contribute to moz.

(Yet again) I made some Mozilla icons of my own awhile ago, here's the link: http://au.4mg.com/moz.htm I really like the moz-communicator.ico one.

I downloaded your icons and they look promissing. There are a few suggestions 1. For some reason under winNT, 1280x1024, 65k colors the icons have graphic glitshes. 2. It would be nice to have at least an icon for "mozilla mail". 3. There seems to be no icon with a transparent background. 4. The background and foreground colors are both too intense making the foreground symbol not stand out enough.

the blue triangle in the background of the mozilla is very netscape-4.x-ish. Even Netscape 6 doesn't have that anymore.

I use RPMs built by blizzard, and his recent RPMs have included a very cool Mozilla icon. Attaching. Should we cc him to ask where/when he got/made it?

cc endico for copyright issues.

I'm the one that made the icon that blizzard uses. He can use it because he has permission and he adds it into his own tree himself. However, there are some possible trademark issues with checking the mozilla logo into the tree. Mitchell is investigating this. Until this is figured out, we can't check any more into the tree. Once the trademark issue is finally resolved, i hope we can use my head image in other icons as well although I don't have any special images for mailnews or composer etc. Someone else would have to do that work or give me ideas. My original artwork is in illustrator as line art so it is easily scalable. If someone needs an icon in a different size the new icon should be made from the line art. Please don't resize blizzard's bitmap since that will be a lot lower quality. (except for drafts of course) I have a separate head image which has a lot of details removed which I used for creating the 16x16 icon in blizzard's build. mpt's idea of using a generic red star is ok if the trademark issue never gets resolved but I think good progress is being made so we might as well leave things the way they are till we can use the mozilla image. I would really prefer not to use stars in icons though because I've never seen a star icon that didn't look really aliased. I'm ready to conclude that unpixellated 5 pointed stars at that size are impossible. Also, I would prefer not to use any icons that use the 'M' from the throbber. Any future artwork should use the 'M' using the font used in the mozilla.org banner. That font is called Revolution. I think the foundry is t-3. However its probably a good idea to avoid using letters in icons anyway.

I did one icon, here's the link: http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ you can find both 32x32 and 16x16 versions. Any suggestions?

I do really like the red splash screen and the icons from the last commnet. I vote for them!

Could someone explain what the trademark issues are on this? Is the lizard trademarked by Netscape?

.9

Depends on. If the lizzard is trademarked by Netscape, then I see no reason they would stop Mozilla from using it. I love the icons at http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ (changing URL to that, as the old URL is outdated). I'm not so mad on the splash screens, and I think the main Mozilla icon would look better without the white border around it. Also, please make sure a set of 48x48 icons is included, as this size is growing in poplarity. Also include a set of icons at 16 colour in 16x16 and 32x32 sizes. I see nothing wrong with including the blue triangle image, the reason Netscape 4 doesn't use it is because it only has one icon, which is the Netscape logo.

Someone should talk to iconfactory.com about doing a contest. They do icon design contests every year, and they always get super high quality submissions from the best icon designers in the world. I'm sure lots of designers would love to take a crack at such a high profile icon. It would assure them NetFame for dayz. Doing a contest on MozillaZine wouldn't attract enough designers. If you need an icon, go to the source,

i'd much prefer for us to just recruit artists and ask them to work based on the two or three plans we have. Unfortunately, i haven't figured out how to find artists

The trademark issue i mentioned above refers to the question of who is allowed to use the red mozilla image and who is not. Let me be more clear. "The mozilla icon" is the red mozilla. The red mozilla is our official symbol and we only want to use that in our official artwork. The green mozilla has no place in such artwork. Its hard to say "Mozilla is not Netscape" if we are using their image in our logo space. Yes, there is currently a green mozilla in our splash screen but this is a mistake and it should go away. The green mozilla is a great image but please, not in the splash screen. I really like Giovanni's icon images. They are the most professional ones I've seen so far. The only problem is that the ship's wheel image is a logo trademarked by netscape and we can't use it. I also like the idea of getting a professional to do it. Are there specs for this anywhere? A list of exactly what we need with sizes, color depths, formats, etc. Despite my reluctance to use these images in the browser itself, it would be nice to collect them up and use them somehow. Someone should create a mozilla museum and populate it with the various splashscreens, icons and download now buttons that people have created.

Green Mozilla is the only true Mozilla. Free Mozilla!

Dawn's last comment doesn't seem very accurate. If the green lizard was really Netscape-specific, then dmoz.org couldn't use it. And if the ship's wheel was really a Netscape trademark, then the Classic theme couldn't use it. Obviously neither of those are the case.

Green Mozilla: a) dmoz.org is owned by netscape. b) I didn't say that netscape wouldn't let us use the green mozilla. I said that we don't want to use it. Ship's Wheel: I withdraw what I said about not being able to use the ship's wheel. According to mitchell's comments in bug 43076 I was wrong about using the wheel. (Yes, its a trademark but since it wasn't disallowed by the npl, its ok to use) However, my personal opinion is that its better not to use it because I want Mozilla to have its own identity and not be confused with Netscape. Nevertheless, art is hard and I don't see anyone coming up with something better any time soon.

I agree with dawn - it would be nice if mozilla kept it's own identity as much as possible... not to mention that as far as the ships wheel goes, it sucks. it sucks when Netscape started using it, and it sucks today... IMHO :)

> art is hard and I don't see anyone coming up with something better any time soon. .. then you havent looked at Giovanni's icons yet (http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/). These are the best icons i have ever seen, of ANY program. They have everything: recognizability, clarity of color and form, detailed and even a 3D-effect. The only things i would change are: - Make the "m" 50% larger (overlapping the triangle and going behind the mail/wheel symbols) - Make the symbols (mail/wheel) 50% larger. A good overlapping effect could yield even more recognizability of the individual symbols in the icon. - Make the small icon (next to the windows clock using "TrayIcon") less washed out under WinNT. Giovanni: the site where your icons are displayed has no link to your email for ppl to send you suggestions directly from there. Also, an intro paragraph (why/how you did the icons) would be nice. Also, create a zip file with your icons and attach it to this bug (Giovanni-1.ZIP).

I have not seen any negative comments regarding Giovanni's design in n.p.m.ui. Though I agree with Peter Lairo's comments above for a little better recognition, I would like his design to enter the nightlies sooner than later. Why don't we include them into the nightlies so that we get better feedback? Are you going to refine your design and post them here, Giovanni? Are you working on icons for documents etc, too?

if we're going to lobby for changes i might as well remind everyone that blue is not part of mozilla's color scheme, red and orange are ...

oh please no - nothing like agressive colors (red tones) to turn everyone off. We should use red accenting, but no more.

I agree. Apple's HIG also say only to use bright colors for accents, not the bulk of the icon.

It has to be taken into account how color scheme affects visualization by color-impaired vision. Using red and orange together is a no-no from that point. As to using blue, the throbber uses blue, and I can not see any problem with it.

As hirata masakazu has pointed out in the last comment the colors used in my icons are based on the throbber image, so the color scheme shouldn't be a problem. hirata masakazu: No icons for documents yet. However, I'd like to know if we need only one icon for all supported filetypes or different icons for different filetypes?

that's bug 27746 which includes a list of icons required [its about 50]. as for colors, if you make the red dark and the orange bright it shouldn't be bad. This is a background after all.

timeless is stuck on red and orange: i think timeless' strength is in his technical competence. As for his esthetic (visual layout) judgement/taste, just look here and judge for yourself whether you want to follow his advice on these matters (no offense timeless, but we all have our weaknesses, and you don't seem to aknowledge/recognize yours) http://timeless.student.umd.edu/mozilla/icons/wishlist.html

The icons with the blue triangle are nice, but i see some problems. First, I think we need to move away from the triangle idea, as that is from Netscape 4, and we want to be different than it. Second, as endico said, any font used has to be the official one, which was not used here, as far as i can tell. Third, as far as i know, the ships wheel is a netscape trademark, and wasn't released for use by mozilla.org. I may be wrong about that... Anyways, the icons look really great, and I think with a few tweak, they may be the ones to go with. Timeless and I had talked about using a red star in the background instead of the triagle when we were trying to come up with a replacement a while ago.

1. The blue triangle is also used in Corel's WordPerfect suite, so it's not just netscape. Maybe it could come to symbolize a unified front against M$ ;-) We should definetly move faaar away from a red star as symbol for mozilla. I don't mind Communism as a political system, but it has negative connotations for many westerners. 2. The font used (or drawn) is very close the the throbber "m". Just a little tweaking and it's done. 3. Trash the wheel if you must. This could be the greatest challenge: to come up with a symbol that immediately conjures up the concept of *BROWSING* to anyone that sees the symbol.

I do second Peter on the Red Star issue. And not as a westerner but a easterner. I've spent 30 years of my lfe in the shadow of the star and it is as offensive to me (and most my compatriots) as the swastika. In Poland it was always anoffensive symbol, so even the communists did not use it in our country. When I showed Mozilla to anyone in Poland, I couls observe the logo on the About page was always a shock. I haven't spoken up on this before but when someone did, I believe we should at least mxiamlize the reptile and minimalize the star use. The about.html star at least has the reptile inside. The red stars on icons will be symbols of the frmer Soviet Union, not Mozilla. All this is my personal opinion, but I am not the only victim of the communism s you step on some toes with the red star.

Besides being painful or offensive to victims of communism, the red star is sooo '98 and jwz-era. Speaking for myself, I welcome a new, sufficiently bold, icon logo for Mozilla. /be

The wheel is so 1400s? and they repressed and killed millions in the new world. I have a new icon proposal. but i'm sick of being insulted.

timeless: good point about that ship's wheel. What's your proposal? BTW, I don't see any insults against you. /be

Besides being painful or offensive to victims of communism, the red star winds up looking really ugly at small sizes (too aliased). Our new bold mozilla icon is http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmozilla.gif although its not widely deployed yet. I would like for new icons to be based on this image. (but not the 16x16 app icons since they're too small to contain both mozilla and the app's image). http://dsl081-068-125-sfo1.dsl-isp.net/mozilla/logos/ Here are some draft images that I just made. The 32x32 images are supposed to have transparent backgrounds. At this moment they don't. Pretend they do. The images I have posing as 16x16 look almost right but aren't quite the right size. Pretend they are. Why did I use the ship's wheel? I think the application icons should use the same images that are used in Mozilla's default theme and the classic theme uses the ship's wheel. I would be extremely happy if someone did some better looking images based on the mozilla head. If no one does, I can clean up these images and we can use them. I don't consider these terribly polished but I think they're better than what's there now and they use real mozilla.org logo.

I strongly urge you to *reconsider* using the dinosaur head as icon. Not only is the red color an aggressive color (how many icons are so dominately red?), but also displaying a *head* as an icon is a futile task. There is no way to show a head and have it detailed enough at that size to be *easily* and *quickly* recognizable. Just imagine how the taskbar icon will look like: an indistiguishable BLOB of red - no thank you. I suggest using the letter "m" with some 3-D effect, like the M$ Ecxel icon. BTW, the "m" in the banner looks like some "challenged" chield drew it (second hump much smaller than the fist hump). Couldn't we use a prettier, more esthetic "m" (like the throbber)? Remember the KISS principal ;)

FWIW, I think endico's mozilla head looks good. With some removal of detail it is quite possible to make an easily recognizable mozilla head in 16x16. I've been using blizzard's builds which have endico's icons in them, and I have no trouble making out the shape of a head in the taskbar (it is certainly not just a "blob of red"). As for red being aggressive, it goes perfectly well with the mozilla mascot-- the lizard dominating the plains (and whatever other terrain...) I assume that trademark issues have been resolved? OK, this is somewhat of a snide comment, so ignore it if you wish: If we keep arguing about which icon to check in, we will *never* move away from the red star (which most people agree is a bad icon). Why don't we check in the mozilla head until something better comes along?

I like endico's artwork. And victims of dinosaurs have been gone for so long, we don't need to worry about offending them! Seriously, I'm all in favor of "worse is better", if not "better is better" -- endico's dino-heads look better to me. /be

Timeless, please submit your icon. I hope it is not me who you believe insults you. I do not know who isthe author of the red star logo. I see the reasonong behind that; it was upposed to show how revolutionary Mozilla is. The intentions were fine. The problem is the author had not made his revolutionary homework. It should have been a red flag with the dinosaur Mozilla. That is the international symbol of revolutions (that does not mean that I support this design of Mozilla logo). Red star is just one of the state sybmols of former Soviet Union (the other ar hammer and sickle and the red flag *with* these tools), usen not only on the Kremlin but on all Soviet planes and tanks. So comparing it to swastika was actually wrong (sorry), but it is the exact equivalent of the black cross on Wehrmacht tanks and Luftwaffe planes. Would you like a Mozilla logo like that? I believe, not. But I still want to see the new icon proposal. The more the better.

I think I should point out a few things about mozilla branding here. First, I remember reading an article about written by the person who designed the Mozilla.org site. He said that he was told what was happening one friday and had the site online by monday. In other words there was no long, thought out process about the design of it. Second, who says we have to use the red mozilla? There are two mozillas, the real one (green and purple) and the new one (red). Why can't we use the old one? I would suggest checking in the icons at http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ because they: 1) Use understood symbols 2) Look like the modern and classic skins 3) Don't use the controvercial (sp?) red mozilla logo. Mozilla is not netscape, but it is based on Netscape and strongly supported by Netscape, I don't think we should forget that. I think those icons keep the link with netscape, while equally extending the program into mozilla.org.

I agree with Peter - I think it would be quite difficult to get a clean and recognizable icon out of the dinosaur head. It's just too complex to make a good icon. I do not, however, think red and orange are bad colors for the icon. On the contrary, I believe a project as bold as Mozilla deserves nothing less than an icon that stands out and declares itself boldly, unlike the placid lithium blues that Explorer uses. I've created another attachment with a new idea for the primary Mozilla icon. This one uses a red 'm' in the official Revolution font (or a close approximation of it) in a subtle 3-D effect over an orange background. If there's much interest in it, I can create derivatives for mail, composer, etc.

Mozilla is red. Period. The green mozilla is Netscape's mozilla, and mozilla.org is not using it. Please don't bring that up again. Mozilla.org's mozilla is red. We have a good icon using a combination of classic skin's taskbar icons and the mozilla head. I will post them when i finish converting them to ico's. See Dawn's link above for what they look like. Again, we WILL NOT USE THE GREEN MOZILLA.

I think we should use a green mozilla. Any objections?

ho hum. Drunk beer, commenting in this bug against my better judgement. Green Dragon/Dinosaur = Netscape Red Dinosaur = Mozilla Not good idea to mix the two. I can understand how the red star would upset some people, so on balance it shoul probably go, but I don't see any point in devalueing any other part of the current Mozilla branding... the red dino is cool. Leave him be.

Green Mozilla is the only Mozilla. Any other Mozilla is an impersonator.

If Mozilla.org really wants to not be confused with Netscape then they should drop the Netscape Trademarked "Mozilla" entirely. (http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=spd44h.2.2) This term has been associated with Netscape since at least the filing date of July 7th, 1995. If you want to kill 5 years of history you're going to have to do a lot more than change Mozilla's color from green to red.

the recent icon attachment looks promising. How about making the "m" more 3D, like rotating it in space (top back and bottom fore a bit), and giving the letter itself some depth (z-axis) - see excel icon. Do we really want to keep that dorky font. The "m" looks like to rectangles, one behind/next to the other. It's way too non-"m" like and too rectangular. Also, the globe and envellope look out of place (color-wise). How about making the globe green and yellow, and double the size? The envelope looks too much like a printer icon at that size. Maybe also make double size and loose the paper, replace with 3 lines on envelope (adressee). The icons have two elements: 1. mozilla 2. browse/mail/etc. Both elements must be quickly and easily recognizable. Therefore i suggest to make the globe/envelope much bigger, while keeping the "m" identifiable (i.e. massive overlapping).

While the M is OK, I don't like the other icons. To me they scream IE/OE. Why should the web have a globe when email doesn't? Since the browser is still called navigator, it should have an icon to reflect this, and an icon that is used in the two skins which *ship* with it. Any suggestions...? Many mozilla users dislike (or even hate) IE, so I think it would be better to resemble Netscape rather than IE.

Maybe something futuristic, yet traditional: How about a sextant with a 4-point star behind it?

If we do go with a dinosaur head icon, it needs to look something like the above attachment: low-detail, line-drawing-style graphic created 1 pixel at a time (rather than just scaled down in photoshop). Anti-aliasing is fine for banners, but it causes details to become too blury at the icon level.

Bugs are not the place for this kind of advocacy debate. If you have a patch or information directly relevant to a _bug_ in the existing implementation (or spec) then please add that information here. If you have a "it should look like this" or an "it shouldn't look like that" _opinion_ then take it to the newsgroups PLEASE. By filling up Bugzilla with these opinion debates you are making the tool less useful for the people actually doing the work and are directly responsible for the lowering of quality in the product. I'll say it again. If you have spec or an implementation that you would like to contribute then Bugzilla is the place. If you have an opinion about the current spec or implementation then the newsgroups are the appropriate forum. Thank you in advance for your help in maintaining a meaningful _bug_ database and for helping to make Mozilla better.

Endico's icons are attractive, but I would like something a little playful. Mozilla is supposed to be fun, right? Also, I believe why limit the browser to only one set of icons? Maybe we should agree on a few sets the browser can have. I use windows, and an application can have as many icons as it wants. I love Giovani's icons and I like AU's - moz_thickoutline.ico (simple, no triangle) also. Maybe if he could play around with that one to make a full set of Mozilla icons similiar to that. Also, I like kaldari@onyxsys.net's "M" icon - and yes, I like the font. Why not include all three sets (and any more cool sets people come up with)? Why limit people's iconning abilities? I say use them all. Hey, one day you might be in the mood for one set, and another day for another. Now, since I don't want to sound like another advocacy debater *shrug*, I am going to alter the Splash screen from the url to have a red mozilla and attach it because I really love this splash screen and really want Mozilla to use it.

If you need the .psd file for any reason, I can post it.

To clarify for Matthew (2000-07-13 09:08): >That depends on the OS. The problem is that in Mozilla, each visible component >(Navigator, Messenger, Address Book, etc) is not an application itself, but a >document which the Mozilla application opens. >* On Windows, you can only have one icon for each document type. On Window, each *application* can have as many icons as it wants, each document type can only have one icon. Therefore, Mozilla is not limited to a certain number of icons nor any icon size on windows. If it is a valid .bmp then it would be a valid .ico (except 16x16 icon would be needed for the windows - you can change those icons dynamically). Since they are can be changed dynamically, you can put a different icon for composer, mail, etc's window.

Chaning the qa contact on these bugs to me. MPT will be moving to the owner of this component shortly. I would like to thank him for all his hard work as he moves roles in mozilla.org...Yada, Yada, Yada...

BTW, the guy who did all the mozilla illustrations for dmoz and those old Netscape T-Shirts is Dave Titus. It might not be a bad idea if a mozilla project representative dropped him a line to see if he would be interested in doing some icon designs for us. BTW, he contends that mozilla is no longer the Netscape mascot as it was scared away by the pinstriped suits. Personally, I see no problem with using the original (and beloved) green mozilla. But regardless of which dinosaur color we choose, I'm sure Dave could come up with some nice designs, maybe even a couple non-dinosaur ones just to get some more ideas on the table. If anyone wants to contact him, his email address is dtitus@qnet.com and his phone number is 760-935-4455.

I made a cool new icon! this one is pretty cool, please check it out! http://www.reitech.net:80/ftp/public/upload/Mozilla.ico For those who can't see .ico format, here's .png format. The icon includes 16*16, 32*32, and 64*64 resolution. 16*16: http://www.reitech.net:80/ftp/public/upload/mozillaicon16.png 32*32: http://www.reitech.net:80/ftp/public/upload/mozillaicon32.png 64*64: http://www.reitech.net:80/ftp/public/upload/mozillaicon64.png

hehe, now when I see the other icons, mine are pretty suck.

abeeri, also look at the status whiteboard.

What status whiteboard?

I saw the icons and they great. I only have one suggestion-- what about address book icon?

has anyone checked the icons on http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ lately ? the icons look now very nice on that page and the same url is also metioned in bug 57576 and on mozillazine build comments March 8, 2001.

I'm gonna place my vote on the icons at http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ . They don't use stars (where does the idea for the stars come from?) and they seem to reflect what each component does. They also fit in with the other common themes of Mozilla. The blue gecko must go, and I think these are the most appropriate icons.

Would someone please attach the 'blue gecko' icon. I'm on a mac so I've only seen the weird blue shape-thingy icon. I wonder which is worse.

you don't want to see it. the large image is pretty nice but at icon size it just looks like a blue apostrophe or a sperm.

I'm creating an attachment of an icon for Mozilla based upon an older design I saw of the M used in some of the drawings by Dave Titus. If this is copyrighted let me know, but I created it myself. Base color is white, but also tested in red. Sorry for ignorant previous comments. Bryant

that M reminds me of the mosaic communications animation from ns0.93

I've been using the icons from http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/ and they're great! I third the crosswinds icons!

I would vote for the icosn of http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/, but i don't dislike the attach_id=26174 ones. Please avoid the red star stuff is very offensive, see Jacek Piskozub post, i couldn't have said it better.

In my opinion the gcc icons are by far the best. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=26174 comes a distant second and if http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=26203 comes an even more distant third. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=21470 are pretty much useless (you shouldn't differentiate only by colour) Like I said above, Mozilla isn't Netscape, but Netscape have a big part to play in Mozilla. These icons also tie in with both skins, which is obviously a plus.

If everyone likes Giovanni's icons, the question now becomes, is Giovanni willing to create the 168+ icons that the Mozilla app needs. We need icons of 3 different sizes (16, 32, and 128) in 4 different bit-depths (1, 4, 8, 32) for at least the following components: Standard App Navigator App Mail App News App Generic Document Incomplete Document Text Document GIF Document JPEG Document PNG Document Plug-in Preferences Bookmark User Profile There are probably several other components I'm forgetting, but the point is, this is a rather large undertaking, so if we hope to have new icons by the 0.9 release, we need to get serious about it pretty soon.

I don't really like Giovanni's main mozilla icon. The white stripe around the 'm' interferes with the 3-d effect. I attached an alternate version based on the 'm' icon in one of his splashscreens.

Giovanni wouldn't have to create all those icons himself. He could just made the one with the largest resolution and bit-depth, and someone else with could to the down-scaling.

kaldary: not a bad design. I like the enhanced 3-d effect. But i still like the "hollow" (transparent) border that is a common theme of all of giovanni's icons. It gives the whole thing a more refined and detailed appearance. I think we should incorporate both aspects: keep the hollow (transparent) border and make the center part more 3-d, and maybe make the "m" just a bit smaller to give room for the 3-d effect. Giovanni, you want to give it a try? (you're an icon god, you should be making icons for money - not a single icon on my whole PC is better)

A couple of experimental icon sets are available at http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/icons/

Giovanni, your web page is frequently not accessible. I suggest moving your excellent icons to another location (provider) so that more people can download your icons and see the light that emanates from your boundless creativity and talent ;)

Your experimental icons are an interesting variation on the originals, but nowhere near their quality, but still far better than anyone elses icons. Having the blue triangle on the top gives it more of a floating, weightless and abstract appearance that seems more interesting and artistic than the logical, envelope-like look when it is on the bottom. Maybe you could just move the "m" into the orage area on the bottom and the symbol to the top blue area and see how that looks like (i like the "m" in the orange idea).

I think the experimental ideas are good (though I miss the blue part being in the upper left). The previous versions look like (vastly) improved versions of the original communicator icons, and while this is appropriate for Netscape6, mozilla needs to differentiate its icons (which is why I like these new icons).

I've attached a new icon proposal based on Dave Titus's mozilla. This is the original mozilla everyone knows and loves (not the red imposter). Whaddya think?

mozilla is red!

Icon from 18.3.01: No, looks too silly and becomes washed out at icon size. Doesn't even come close to the quality of Giovanni's icons.

Assuming that these icons can't be drawn in 16 colours, shouldn't they be made to use the browser-safe palette? P.S. FYI: Re: Windows windows icons: On Windows, each window needs both icons. (Although they can be stored in the same file they must still be loaded twice.)

The color safe palette has about 16 colors (maybe it was 11?), if we decide to use something like that, we're stuck in a stupid place. Each platform will include some platform specific binaries, so we are probably much better off using that instead. (id=28059) would be nice except for one thing: Status Whiteboard: [Mozilla is RED] well, that and the app icons are way too small.

OK, the attachment above is in the Windows System pallette and includes 16 pixel versions. I also have a 128 pixel version at home.

Colorizing those images to a red mozilla results in an unviewable mouth which makes the creature unrecognizable. Please start by believing the mozilla is red.

I would like to see more feedback about the concept, not the technical merits of the graphics. They're just rough drafts, like I imagine Giovanni's are. I can make them red or purple or whatever. The point of my concept is that I want to have a more memorable standard icon. Truth is, I like Giovanni's icons a lot. In fact I like his app specific ones a lot better than mine, but I think his standard mozilla icon (which is definitely the most important of the lot) is a bit weak. This is the icon that everyone will associate with mozilla. In fact, this will probably become the de facto symbol of the product. I would like to see some more ideas from Giovanni on this. Also, if zach (or someone else) would like to email me about why mozilla is supposed to be red, I'd appeciate it. Personally, I think abandoning the classic green mozilla is a shot in the foot.

Not that I like it, but I did a red version of the classic mozilla as an experiment. Unfortunately, red is hard to be subtle with so I ended up making him a bit too orange.

Doesn't it look like a green Mozilla after a good tan session? Or like tomatoes that are no more green but not yet red? ;-)

This bug has gotten way out of hand. First off, mozilla is the mozilla in the header of THIS PAGE. There is NO other mozilla when talking about mozilla.org properties. I am closing this bug as invalid, because there is no way to reach consensus on any set of icons. I know mozilla.org is talking to Giovanni's icons, and how they'd like to see them. Further discussion of this should be taken to the UI newsgroup. I will open a tracking bug that we will use to only check in the FINAL set of icons, and not for 60 different people to vote on. Please use the newsgroups to do that.

vrfy it is quite clear from this bug that the mozilla icon is not really boring and ugly. it is at least rather exciting and controversial :-)

the *icon* IS boring and ugly, the topic is what is *interesting* :)

Consider talking to the Barney people about blue to enrage everyone. Controversy is good.

Hi all. I know a guy that works making icons. He is a minimalist, so maybe you will like his work. You can see it at http://grafica.mareotis.com/mozilla/

Those icons are way too detailed for such a small space, and there is not enough contrast. Besides, this bug is VERIFIED WONTFIX, try n.p.m.UI

I really like pepepue's latest mozilla icons (http://grafica.mareotis.com/mozilla/). I think they're the first truly cool icons made for mozilla. Nice work.

I like this splash page (and the one came with the current release). http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=26259 Consider using the yellow square in in with the red dino head in it is the application Icon. Or something simular. - Jason

Ah, this whole thing makes me sick - there is no way to get a recognizable red dinosaur head into an icon *and* have enough space for anything else that is recognizable (envelope, wheel, rolodex page, etc.). Please reconsider building on these masterpieces: http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/oldstuff/index.html Maybe replacing the "m" with a dino head blob or something. Or use giovanni's new icon for the master app icon and his previous masterpieces (I can't say that often enough - masterpieces, ahhh) for the individual modules (mail, browser, etc) PS. where has this bug moved to? Is it now in the black hole called newsgroup? I hope not.

Killing off the depends. This bug is closed. Go to the newsgroup.

Just for the record. 1. Why did you change the target and summary of a bug you had marked WONTFIX? 2. The bug is not closed (as defined by Bugzilla). Have we shipped the product?

Jason. I cannot understand your logic here. You mark 27746 as a dup of 73712 but not this? Especially, after you changed it's summary to make it more similar? I'll risk the wrath of Mozilla gods and make a dup of bug 73712 as well. I believe that when two dups are practically identical, one should not be WONTFIX if the other is supposed to be fixed. Reopening to make it a dup.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 73712 ***

Sorry for the messing up here. Won't happen again.

Just wanted to say that the Linux Mozilla icon rocks, but the Windows and Mac OS ones are very very ugly. The really bad part is that when you have a system with only a 16 color graphics card (some of my servers) or you do a fresh install of windows and you only have 16 colors the icon is the same color as the default windows background so you dont even see it. It just blends right in. I think we shoud be using the Linux icon (PNG above) for all the systems. It's a nice one.

The lizard head is too detailed to be a good icon.

Whoever rewrote my summary and marked this bug a duplicate of 73712 was smoking crack (Jason Kersey). This bug concerns the aesthetic qualities of the Mozilla icons, not whether or not they exist. I'm changing my summary back and reopening the bug. I would appreciate it if whoever has the authority would resolve this bug as FIXED or WONT FIX or whatever. This bug may DEPEND on bug 73712, but it's not a duplicate.

Jason Kersey changed the summary to almost identical with bug 73712 (no idea why) and marked it fixed/wontfix. I reopened it and made it a dup of 73712. At least it created a link from 73712 to this one. I believe you have the power to mark fixed a bug you reported. However I cannot understand why you would prefer it fixed/wontfix to fixed/duplicate. By being a dup of bug 73712 your beomes a part of 73712, adding to its history. Marking it wontfix makes it a true dead bug.

I didn't want to mark it FIXED myself, since personally, I still don't think the icons are that great. But rather than provoke the Mozilla gods further, I guess I'll go along with the concensus and concede the point. To make sure that this bug isn't totally lost to the world, however, I'm going to mark it as dependant of bug 73712, which makes a lot more sense to me than marking it as a duplicate. Call me a nitpicker, but I like for these things to make sense sometimes. For the record, I do think that the new icons are a definite improvement.

Is it really fixed? We know it is not. Stopping short from verifying.

Has anyone looked at Giovanni's newer Mozilla icons? http://www.crosswinds.net/~ggc/. They're terrific. Are these new ones (with the dinosaur head) actually going to be implemented? When can we expect to see them? They're a huge improvement over his original set. BTW, we also need a new installer icon which I've created a seperate bug for: bug 93768. Any chance of basing it on this new Mozilla icon design?

The proper open bug for the lack of different icons is now bug 73712.

Bug 73712 deals with establishing separate icons for different Mozilla component windows, it has nothing to do with the installer icon.

This bug is neither fixed nor is it a dupe. Bug 73712 is for SEPARATE icons, this bug is for BETTER icons. These are two distinct issues. I suggest you reopen this bug and keep it open until that ugly lizzrd icon is finally "improved".

I've grown quite fond of Ximian's Mozilla icons. The star/lizard launch icon is unmistakeable for anything else even at low resolutions, and the right facing lizard for minimized windows follows through on the theme. Here is an example of the icons in a control panel from my desktop. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=47881&action=view

The licensing issues are resolved now, right - which means that drivers@mozilla.org can now decide on an icon set? Again, I believe that at least 4 or 5 sets should be chosen. Icons take up so little space, and why limit the users to one set? Also, please make sure that there are different icons for the window of navigator, mail, and composer.

The license change was to change the existing license on source files. Nothing to do with images. Nothing has been resolved.

I'm starting an effort to formalize an effort to revise the parts of Mozilla's appearance outside themes, such as the icon suite, the installer, the splash screen, and the Profile Manager dialog. I've started a web page with some initial ideas and bug links at [http://greg.tcp.com/mozilla/ui/Outside/introduction.html]. I welcome any and all comments on it.

Adam, could you also attach a gif or png of your icons? Thanks.

Also, be sure to include 48x48 and 128x128 sizes.

These icons are only for the navigator. We needs also icons for mail, editor etc. See bug 73712 for the detailed list. BTW, this bug is dead. The right bug for Mozilla icon implementation is 73712.

Well, also the reopened bug 47779. I'm not quite sure if one should be a dup of the other, or not.

a complete 'lizardous' icon set. it features 64x64, 48x48, 32x32, 24x24, and 16x16 sizes, with 32-, 16, 8-, 4- & 1 (monochrome) bit depth. the 32-bit format takes advantage of Windows XP's 16M colors and alpha blending support. hope you like it. bye all Francesco De Francesco <fdefrancesco@iol.it>