Tracking bug for tuning default bookmarks. In particular, I have some objections to the current default bookmarks: - No link to bugzilla. This is a big flaw, since that's the reason for the builds. Suggest adding to Personal Toolbar and Mozilla Org. - There's no link to the nightlies in the bookmarks. Not everbody uses the personal toolbar. - Under Community, there should be a link to <http://www.mozilla.org/community.html>. - I would add a link to <http://www-3.ibm.com/ibm/easy/eou_ext.nsf/Publish/561>, because IBM sat stadards for the PC in the past, and still does research and offers much of this for free on the webpages. Will assign to me for now; if somebody wants to take it, go ahead.

are these filed against the old defaults, or my new defaults waiting on checkin?

Jeremy, this is against your latest version. > - There's no link to the nightlies in the bookmarks. Not everbody uses the > personal toolbar Ignore that, the folder also appears in Bookmarks. > - No link to bugzilla. This is a big flaw, since that's the reason for the > builds. Suggest adding to Personal Toolbar and Mozilla Org. There is a link to bugzilla, but under "webtools". IMO, webtools should go away, and the bookmarks be sorted after topics - i.e. tinderbox, bonsai and lxr under "developer" and bugzilla to personal toolbar. - I would add a "testing" or "QA" folder, which has links to nightlies and bugzilla. (I wouldn't search under "personal toolbar".) - Personally, I would remove "feedback". - I think, we really should add the dynamic bookmarks in the current bookmarks, too, because they show decent Mozilla functionality. I think, we should 1. correct the largest problems quickly 2. carry this to a newsgroup for the more subjective discussion. For 1., I propose - Add the dynmic searches - Add community.html (newsgroups) link - Possibly add IBM UI link Any objections?

I can see the point about adding the IBM link (especially given that we have an OS/2 port), but I'd be wary of adding dynamic searches just because they're cool (if possible, we should add searches which are actually *useful*). Which newsgroup for discussion?

Here's what I think should be in the Personal Toolbar: mozilla.org tinderbox bonsai bugzilla lxr And possibly any other useful mozilla.org used regularly while using mozilla.

Well, since we're going to have some fun with the mozilla bookmarks personal toolbar, let's go for it :-) How about: - Mozilla.org {http://www.mozilla.org/} - Tinderbox {http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=SeaMonkey} - LXR (seamonkey) - Find text {javascript:var text=prompt("Find text","");if (text) location.href="http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/search?string="+text;} - Find file {javascript:var file=prompt("Find file","");if (file) location.href="http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/find?string="+file;} - Find identifier {javascript:var id=prompt("Find identifier","");if (id) location.href="http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/ident?i="+id;} - Bugzilla - Main page {http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/} - Query {http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi} - Go to bug {javascript:var num=prompt("Go to bug#","");if (num) location.href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id="+num;} - Post bug (advanced) {http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi} - Bonsai {http://bonsai.mozilla.org} i.e. have some folders in there with useful stuff for developers

> I'd be wary of adding dynamic searches just because they're cool > (if possible, we should add searches which are actually *useful*). At least one target group of mozilla.org are vendors, so technology demonstrations does have a point. And it doesn't hurt too much. Actually, I think, it is a really useful hint for users, too. It's not like were adding menu items *g*. > Which newsgroup for discussion? .flamewar, .defaults, .ui or .general

oh, add readding (simple) links to tinderbox and bonsai to pt to the step one list.

btw, maybe this should really be in the en-MozHackers locale, and add a en-Vendors locale too... And an en-mpt one :-) But seriously, what exactly should be on the personal toolbar? And is that something that can change with time, or be changed in a Mozilla Release branch (and perhaps the Milestones) when the time is there? For the time being I see developers (website, moz hackers, ...) being the primary users of the mozilla nightlies, hence my proposal to put back in the PT and even add more regularly used links by those developers.

Started a discussion in n.p.m.general and n.p.m.ui. Please post comments there rather than here, until either consensus or violent disagreement is reached. If the former, changes can be made; if the latter, the default bookmarks file can be made empty. :-)

I incorporated teh most obvious changes proposed in the last days, and created a diff. Will also attach full file for convience of non-hackers. Please r=. Changes in particular: - Step 1 described above - Fixed NewZilla link - s/Mozilla.org/mozilla.org - added "www." - Spelling corrections, e.g. added dash in "Bug-Tracking System" - Reworded - Removed redundancy in wording - Added "User-" to "Interface Design" (APIs are interfaces, too) Again, this is just Step 1. Most controversial changes (Personal Toolbar, adding more links etc.) please into Step 2.

Suggestion(s): remove all ID attributes from folders (but not from the "NC:PersonalToolbarFolder" and also not from individual URLs), and remove any/all "LAST_CHARSET", "ADD_DATE", "LAST_VISIT", "LAST_MODIFIED" attributes.

rjc: I can do that with the next update; it is even simplier to maintain. Can you tell the technical background shortly, especially why to leave the IDs of URLs?

BTW: I checked in step 1 (before rjc's comment).

Well, "LAST_CHARSET", "ADD_DATE", "LAST_VISIT", "LAST_MODIFIED" are all info related to the user: what charset they refer for a web page, when they added the page to their bookmarks, the last time they went there, and the last time they modified the bookmark. If the end user didn't actually do anything with the bookmark (because its one of the defaults we ship with), none of that info should be set. As for the URLs, bookmarks of course need to have a URL, otherwise they are useless. But folders shouldn't have them (EXCEPT for the Personal Toolbar folder, as its special)... Mozilla will put ID attributes on the folders the first time the user runs the product, to help with RDF aggregation.

rjc, for URLs, ID==URL? That would explain bug 51683. Anyway, tnx for the hint.

I just found out about bug 29871 (Thanks to Google!). Would somebody like to modify the default bookmarks to make the urlbar respond to "bug 1111" and "wmo PSM build instructions Windows" (wmo or any other keyword = www.mozilla.org search) and what else you might find useful?

Ben, I seem to remember that Asa had a trick for making "bug 1234" work by typing it into the urlbar.

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to set up bookmarks with pre-defined custom keywords.

Why? I argue that "bug 54635" would be useful for almost all Mozilla developers, testers etc..

Then go get scc's neat sidebar panel which can way better provide the functionality you're looking for. Or write a javascriptlet which does it (see examples provided in this report). Overloading the urlbar like that is nasty.

Ben, I think discoverability is the issue here. Folks aren't going to know they can type "bug 12345" and get a result. I've been using this "bugmark" since the day the functionality became availble and most of the folks that I've shared it with think it's a great thing. Maybe that one could be included and then we could "spread the word" that mozilla has this cool shortcut for searching Bugzilla. We could evangelize it as a useful example of what folks could set up on their own for other search engines. I'm a little concerned about doing this with any significant number of bookmarks though.

Sounds good to me. Anyone want to do the work (change default bookmarks.html)?

Netscape Nav triage team: this is not a Netscape beta stopper.

Changing personal priorities. Giving away most of my bugs :-( (reassigning to default owner). I will still track these bugs closely. If you need my input, feel free to ask me. New owner: Please do *not* close these bugs (as WONTFIX or whatever you may find) unless they are fixed. Rather, reassign to <nobody@mozilla.org>, if you don't want to work on them.

Marking nsbeta1- bugs as future to get off the radar

Paul Chen is now taking Bookmarks bugs. For your convenience, you can filter email notifications caused by this by searching for 'ilikegoats'.

mass reassign of pchen bookmark bugs to ben

I don't think Ben'll mind if I steal this. Version 3 is massively bit-rotted (4 404s, and a page that has breaking news of "Netscape 6.1 Preview Release 1"). I'd like to remove all 3rd party sites, which, after I remove the 404s, boils down to mozillazine.org. Objections? I've got nothing against the site, but we shouldn't be trying to pick and choose friends for the default bookmarks, because next thing you know mozillaquest, or O'reilly, or microsoft will be wanting placement. mozillazine.org can be advertised elsewhere (on the front page of mozilla.org, in a story on 'other resources', for all I care... 3rd parties shouldn't be in the code though, which is what bookmarks.html is, nontechnically). I did the original mozilla bookmarks and I regret including those sites... at the time I thought having more bookmarks was a good thing... bookmarks.html looked so empty, compared to the old Netscape version. I'll post a new version soon incorporating comments here ("bug" custom keyword, for one), then start a newsgroup thread if anything left over is discussionworthy.

Oops... that doesn't work in a sensible way, it seems. Over to me.

And now we accept...

Regarding the "SmartFind queries" present in the default bookmarks... a) Is that their unbranded name? Where is documentation on them? b) How can I create one through the UI? c) Right-clicking on one shows a blank context menu. I'll likely have to remove them because of these issues.

> Regarding the "SmartFind queries" present in the default bookmarks... > a) Is that their unbranded name? No idea. What is branding? ;-P > Where is documentation on them? The default bookmarks are the documentation. > b) How can I create one through the UI? Not at all, to my knwoledge. Unless you write some UI. > c) Right-clicking on one shows a blank context menu. Then don't do that. Right-clicking on menus is something that hardly every works in any app, so users are unlikely to do it. > I'll likely have to remove them because of these issues. That are not really issues in my book. Note that these are the *Mozilla* default bookmarks, which are targetted at developers and QA. Distributors (Netscape, beonex, Redhat, Debian, ...) will use thier own default bookmarks anyways.

OK, going to attach a preliminary version. Rationale for the changes that I remember: I've done a new QA menu. It does a lot of the links like getting involved/bug reporting/latest builds. No sense having them both places, so you won't think those links in this bookmarks.html. The new QA menu should be checked in by tomorrow. If you want to see: http://turbogeek.org/mozilla/debug-qa-patch.png I've chucked the third-party sites. See comment 34. Removed link to ``The Mozilla Organization'' from the Personal Toolbar. The throbber goes there, plus the text never did fit. It's hardly necessary. Added ``Feedback'' link to the Personal toolbar. This is the text Microsoft's used on all of their windows in beta versions of OSes, seems to work for them. It's a link to http://www.mozilla.org/feedback.html, which is a pretty decent page, and includes a link itself to the newsgroups ("Community") page. Under "Technology Demonstrations", added a new folder: "Custom Keywords". Contains two bookmarks, "About Custom Keywords", a link to the documentation, and "Bug lookup (Keyword: 'bug')", a sample which looks up a bug number. See comment 27. The other folder under demonstrations is "SmartFind queries". If there a way to do a 'not' type query? The example queries we ship with are all too similar, had an idea for something differant. Apparently, there are no docs on this. The '.org' one doesn't work how I intended, I'd like to replace it with "URLs not starting with 'www.'".

preliminary version

> The example queries we ship with are all too similar They show how to search for strings - at the end - in the middle - at the beginning and - in the title - in the url You need at least 3 bookmarks to show that. How about adding a keyword "bugquery", which hands the string to the search form on the bugzilla frontpage? IIRC, that form does some smart queries with a single string.

> You need at least 3 bookmarks to show that. Or maybe use the comment field instead. Or write up a (stable) webpage describing them and link that.

I think your reasoning for removing both mozillazine, and not adding other sites like orielly is quite dumb. I know I consider mozillazine to be an asset to the community (i'm a bit biased since i run the thing) and I think linking to other community sites does much more benefit and little, if any harm to the project as a whole. I'd like to see mozillazine, mozillanews, oreilly's dev center, xulplanet, and other so called "third party" links. Mozilla is a community, not a company, and i don't see a problem expressing that in the product. How any of these sites is a "third party" in the community is beyond me.

I agree with Jason, but we need to focus on if that really belongs in the *bookmarks*. If you just want to promote these sites, then maybe bookmark a webpage listing these third-party sites. And add beonex.org to that community :). (Disclaimer: That domain is owned by me.)

> You need at least 3 bookmarks to show that. OK, I can add one more, since it's the only docs we have. > How about adding a keyword "bugquery", which hands the string to the search > form on the bugzilla frontpage? Because that's a javascript form. It's done client side. Yeah it's possible to throw all the JS into the custom keyword, but Asa said to keep built in custom kw's to a min... > Or maybe use the comment field instead. I considered this, but it's unlikely anyone would look there, and it's such a small box, it would be quite hard to explain the whole system coherently. > Or write up a (stable) webpage Quite needed, for parity with the "About Custom Keywords". Any volunteers? > I think your reasoning for [...] is quite dumb. I am sympathetic. Users do need a way to discover your site, and others. I'm not willing to be the person to say who gets in and who doesn't, though. Perhaps we can check in a version without outside sites, then open a bug to determine who, how, and where to promote favored community sites. A mozilla.org core member would have to supervise and approve a decision like that, I would think.

adding dependencies: bug 75879 : add mozillatranslator.org bug 115567: obsolete alphanumerica, total recall to keep track on them

b) How can I create one through the UI? SmartFind queries can be saved via the Find dialog in bookmarks. Enjoy.

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resolve as dupe in favor of bug 229234. see bug 229234 comment 7 and 8 *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 229234 ***