The primary content of http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/brand/downloads/ as well as multiple pages under http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/brand/identity/ is logos. These pages have the following text in their footer: "Except where otherwise noted, content on this site is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike License v3.0 or any later version." Which suggests that the *copyright* license for the assets that are also subject to trademark might be CC-by-sa 3.0 or later. However, if you click through the linkified word "noted", you get http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal.html#site which specifically excludes the trademarked assets from the CC-by-sa 3.0 or later copyright license: "The trademarks and logos of the Mozilla Foundation and any third party and the look and feel of this web site (to the extent the look and feel elements are works of authorship, such as the graphic design, artwork, and artistic illustrations) are not included in the work that is licensed under the Creative Commons terms." Other than saying that trademarks and logos are not under the CC terms, it doesn't say what copyright terms they *are* under. http://blog.gerv.net/2010/01/packages_and_trademarks_an_observation/#comment-8276 suggests the logos that exist in the code tree are under the tri-license. Given the history around the Firefox icon *copyright* in Debian and Wikipedia, it would be good to be crystal clear about what the *copyright* license for the logos and look&feel assets in the Brand Toolkit is and to say that on the brand toolkit pages themselves without a link through to text that states an exception to the grant stated on the pages themselves.

Hi Henri - Thanks for filing this and for the details above. Hey John - Any insights here?

This is definitely well beyond my area of expertise. Am copying Liz, who will know way better than I. Liz, thoughts on comment #0?

I agree there should be some clear and conspicuous information about the licensing of the logos available in the brand toolkit. John - Let's talk about it. Do you have some time next week?

(In reply to liz from comment #3) > John - Let's talk about it. Do you have some time next week? Yep, I'll set something up.

John and I talked about this. I'm going to propose some language, probably for the Identity page, maybe the download page or both, explaining briefly the copyright license and the trademark license - who we are authorizing to use the logos and for what types of purposes.

Liz: sounds good. Any progress? :-) I'd be happy to review. Gerv

Hey Liz. Friendly ping on this. Also, figured I'd assign it to you for now since I think the next step is yours here.

Sorry for the delay on this, I'll try to provide language for review by next week.

adding myself here, because we want to localize parts of the toolkit once this is resolved, thanks Liz!

Hey Liz. Mike just reminded me about this bug. What do you think?

Hi all. Sorry about letting this slip through the cracks. I have a good system for keeping on top of legal bugs, but not for other bugs. I'll have to work on that. Anyway, I hope I'll be able to remember what I was planning to write. I'll get this done this week. If I haven't done anything by Thursday, please bug me!

How does this sound for the Identity page, above “For all permitted uses of our trademarks, you may not”: “If you wish to use the Firefox logo in a press piece or on an item to be distributed solely to your friends and family free of charge, or you are a community member or partner who has been authorized by Mozilla to use our logos, then you are permitted to use the Firefox logo in accordance with this Brand Toolkit and the Mozilla Trademark Policy (link). For any other use, please send a permission request to trademarks@mozilla.com." John - With respect to the other pages, I'm not sure who you want to allow to use the monsters (if anyone anymore), the Universal tab, and other stuff. Are those only for use on Mozilla pages and products? If so, perhaps we should add to the other sections of the brand toolkit something like "If you're creating a Mozilla webpage, product, or gear, here's what you need." Another option would be to add a Legal/License Rights/Permissions page with more detailed information.

(In reply to liz from comment #12) > How does this sound for the Identity page, above “For all permitted uses of > our trademarks, you may not”: > > “If you wish to use the Firefox logo in a press piece or on an item to be > distributed solely to your friends and family free of charge, or you are a > community member or partner who has been authorized by Mozilla to use our > logos, then you are permitted to use the Firefox logo in accordance with > this Brand Toolkit and the Mozilla Trademark Policy (link). For any other > use, please send a permission request to trademarks@mozilla.com." That's a trademark-related statement that's silent about copyright. This bug is about making it clear what the *copyright* licensing status of the logos is. Every time it's not clear to someone on Wikipedia what the *copyright* status is (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Firefox#Is_the_Firefox_logo_free.3F ), there's a chance of a section like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox#Trademark_and_logo growing larger and potentially incorrect and leading to logo issues overshadowing other aspects of interest of Firefox.

Henri is right. This bug is about a clear statement on the _copyright_ status of the varies copies of the Firefox logo which Mozilla distributes. My understanding is that the correct answer is that copies in the Mozilla source code tree are under the MPL 2 (now). I would assume that this applies to other copies by default, such as those distributed in the Firefox Brand Toolkit, but perhaps we want to make them CC-BY instead? Gerv

Liz, let us know what you think about comments #13 and 14. The only other thing I'll add for now is that we may need to be flexible about where on the page this language goes...right now the layout is pretty tightly constructed, so I'd like to add it in a place where it's visible, but also not somewhere that will require rearranging everything else. Thanks!

You're right, I tend to think in terms of trademark rights when it comes to logos, I guess because I'm not an artist or user for creative purposes. Anyway, this was addressed in Bug 476604 and Bug 686890 (I've made sure Henri and Gerv are cced on both). Perhaps the request in Bug 686890 was never implemented. We decided on the CC-BY license for the high res vector files. The low res are under MPL 2. John - Do you want to suggest how and where to present both the copyright and trademark license messages that make sense for the audience of the brand toolkit and will fit on the pages and/or in the files?

Reassigning to jslater per comment 16. Gerv

Yes, we'll implement with the new & improved brand toolkit in Q3. Thanks!

The new style guide at http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/ still doesn't have, as far as I can see, clear statements on the copyright and trademark status of the logos. There's a list of things you can't do, and a generic "content on this site is Creative Commons" footer, but neither of those gives the full picture. John: I can write some text if you can find a spot for it in the guide. Is that OK? Gerv

Sounds good, thanks.

Proposal (jslater: please approve and comment): Update http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/licensing/website-content.html to replace the para beginning "The rights" with: "Trademark rights in the trademarks, logos, service marks of the Mozilla Foundation, as well as the look and feel of this web site, are not licensed under the terms mentioned above. Details of permitted uses for our trademarks can be found in our <a href="http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/">Style Guide</a>. The logo files containing our trademarks are available under the following copyright licenses: vector logo files are <a>CC-BY 3.0</a> or later; bitmap logo files are <a>MPL 2</a>. If you have any questions about complying with our licensing terms for this collection, you should email: ..." We also need a clarifying statement somewhere on http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/ , but I'm not sure where. jslater? It should say: "The logo files containing our trademarks are available under the following copyright licenses: vector logo files are <a>CC-BY 3.0</a> or later; bitmap logo files are <a>MPL 2</a>." Gerv

Thanks Gerv. That text sounds good to me - can we get someone in Legal to give final approval? Re: the clarifying statement, that seems like something we'd want to add in a few different pages. Pages like http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/styleguide/identity/firefox/wordmarks/, but probably just that...there are a few places where logos are available for download. If all goes well, we can add this to the list of things to do when we update the style guide with the new logo info (July).

Liz: can you confirm my text in comment 21 is OK? Gerv

Please note we are migrating the Foundation content to Bedrock with bug 724633. Craig - will you please make the text updates above after Liz approves here in this bug. I'm going to make this bug block the main Foundation bug, but we can move forward with the Foundation migration while waiting on approval for the text changes. Thanks, everyone, Jen

Liz: ping? Gerv

I'm sorry I never responded to this. Were the requested changes made? Do you wtill want my input?

(In reply to Liz Compton [:liz] from comment #26) > Were the requested changes made? It appears that they were not. Though I'm not Gerv, it seems to me that Gerv's request is still relevant.

Yes, Liz: can you confirm that the text in comment 21 is OK? I believe it is still accurate. Gerv

Hi all. Sorry for the delay. These changes can be made but note that legal is embarking on a project to improve the information we provide about trademarks and copyrights (John & Gerv we'll coordinate with you as needed) so it may get changed again or be moved.

Commit pushed to master at https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/74fb04f5f92b396e32bdab9e8d8220acea19ab87 Bug 690725 - make copyright licensing of logos more clear. a=liz.