build id: 1999052517 platform: windows nt in the view | character set menu, "Baltic Rim" should read "Baltic" as far as I know. (I've never seen that charset referred to as "Baltic Rim"; Windows seems to consistently refer to it as "Baltic" or "Baltic Alphabet".

This is invalid bug. Read the following url if you are not agree w/ me. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/books/techlang/devintl/d3/s2578.htm http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/books/techlang/devintl/d3/s2570.htm Reopen this if you still not agree w/ me after you read the two page above...

well, yes, that's what it's called in the programmers' manuals, but in terms of end-users, it seems to be referred to as just plain "baltic" in IE 4 and 5, for example. therefore, I suggest that we go with what's commonly used in MS products as any deviation from that looks strange, even if "Baltic Rim" is "more" correct. Reopening bug.

I do not agree. We should not position ourself as a copycat. How about let's our Baltic expert decide this. Add Baltic mozilla developers- bertrand.gilet@wanadoo.fr,pok@nbsp.nsk.su,bertilow@hem1.passagen.se,DARIOROD@tel eline.es, to the cc list. Baltic experts, please tell us what we should do "Batlic Rim" or "Baltic" ? Pleaes put down in bug report instead of email discussion for this. Thanks.

some how bugzilla do not like the email address bertrand.gilet@wanadoo.fr in cc list. Take it out and mail him seperately

somehow bugzilla do not like non use mail address. Send bug report to them by mail instead....

somehow bugzilla do not like non use mail address. Send bug report to them by mail instead....

We are already using "Baltic" on Communicator 4.51 and 4.6. I beleive we went with this name rather than with what the Windows codepage name is, i.e. "Baltic Rim". I personally see no reason to change from what we are already using in our earlier products -- there is consistency maintained this way -- unless there is an overriding reason to adopt "Baltic Rim". My Messenger 5.0 charset document uses "Baltic" while Frank's Raptor 5.0 charset document lists "Baltic Rim". I think we should agree on one. I vote for "Baltic" unless someone presents a convincing argument.

Since this isssue will probably be raised any way, let me mention this additional fact. Of the 3 languages covered by ISO-8859-4 or Windows-1257, Estonian is really not a Baltic language (or part of Balto-Slavic family). It is actually a Finno-Ugric language classified under the Uralic family. In that sense, "Baltic" would be incorrect. But the English word "Baltic" also refers to "the Baltic sea region" in a geographical sense -- in fact that is normally the first definition given in most English dictionaries. In that sense, the use of "Baltic" is correct and since the charsets under question (ISO and Windows) do cover Estonian, we use it in the geographical sense -- i.e. as a name for a group of languages covered by the ISO-8859-4 and Windows-1257. The term "Baltic Rim" would make it clearer that this is a geographic name, but this is not necessary in my opinion. Even Microsoft document like "Developing International Software" uses these 2 terms interchangeably.

The only argument I will make is the one I've made before: Communicator 4.x and earlier has 'Baltic' and IE has 'Baltic'. I have never seen a Web browser that says 'Baltic Rim'; additionally, I have never heard that geographic region referred to as the 'Baltic Rim' (typically, in English, one refers to 'the Baltics', meaning the three ex-SSRs on the Baltic Sea).

There are two charsets to which it is based: ISO-8859-4 and ISO-8859-13. The first is nicknamed 'Latin 4', and is intended to also cover other countries like Scandinivia. It never succeeded outside the Unix world. The second is nicknamed 'Latin 7 (Baltic rim)' (in French, « Latin n°7 (pourtour baltique) », since the standard is bilingual). Microsoft closely sticks to this standard when they create codepage 1257, back around '93 (but "windows-1257" and "iso-8859-13" are slightly different charsets). This way, the official name of this encoding is probably more "Baltic Rim" than "Baltic" (in English). At least, this is the right choice from the technical point of view of the CS engineer (no offence intended). Then comes the practice. And Windows users only *see* "Baltic" as the name of the charset-related operations, since the beginning (note that I am not speaking about IE, but about plain-vanilla Windows multilingual support, like the content of files INTL.INF in NT or MULLANG.INF in 9x). BTW, Estonians *users* do not seem to be upset about that.

I'd recommend changing this to "Baltic" until we have a strong reason to go against what seems to be common usage for end-users. A strong reason would have to be related to making this easier or less confusing for the end-user. Let's change it to "Baltic" for M7, but leave the bug open until M8 waiting for more data.

ok, I change it to Baltic from "Baltic Rim"

Thanks for the fix. Verified in 1999061409 build, NT.