[Feel free to choose a more appropriate component.] To reproduce: Press 'Shift + Space'. Current result: The web page/e-mail is scrolled downwards (just like when you press 'Space'). Expected result: The web page/e-mail should be scrolled upwards (at least on Mac and Windows). This is the way it works in IE.

rfe

update component.

*** Bug 80393 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Anyone want this one?

It's not clear that this is a very popular option. At the last keyboard meeting everyone thought it was a bad idea.

> It's not clear that this is a very popular option. What do you mean by "popular"? It's *standard* Windows (i.e. IE) and Mac behaviour.

IE != standard.. we use it for reference, but it's not a rulebook.

> IE != standard.. IE == Operating system standard. 'Shift + Space' works *not only in the browser*. If you open the Windows help system, 'Shift + Space' scrolls backwards. (This is of course because the help system uses the HTML rendering component, but from the user's point of view, this is not relevant.)

On Mac it is standard in Netscape 4.7X (and perhaps earlier), in iCab, in the mailer Magellan and probably many other programs. I constantly forget that Mozilla doesn't support it... (I don't use IE for Mac, so I have not got the ida from IE.)

I knew I'd get in trouble by saying it that way :) The original thinking was that this was just unnecessary, but no one at the keyboard UI meeting had brought up the fact that IE does it this way. I think you make an excellent point. Most of the time, we do use IE as the lead in keyboard UI decisions - they've done a decent job. I wouldn't call this a high priority though, compared with our other keyboard problems.

i don't see this working in windows98 as a standard, only ie seems to do it. However, it seems that shift-space is not used for anything else.

> i don't see this working in windows98 as a standard, > only ie seems to do it. It works everywhere 'Space' works (for scrolling). This includes (but is probably not limited to) Internet Explorer, the help system and Outlook Express.

shift-space? I tried word, ns4, wordpad, notepad, not of them exhibited it. Not that i am against this..

NS4? Nobody has claimed anything aboutg NS4! There is no shift space support in NS4 (on the Mac at least). NS4.7x on the other hand, is something else... At least on the mac.

ns4 for me is 4.76, sorry.

shift+spacebar in 4.76 on linux and winnt still just pages down. but 4.76 on mac does page upwards using shift+spacebar.

*** Bug 70153 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Doron wrote: > shift-space? I tried word, ns4, wordpad, notepad, not of them exhibited it. Not > that i am against this.. Shift+space to scroll up wouldn't make sense in a word processor, since space doesn't scroll down, and since a user would be likely to hit shift+space accidentally when trying to capitalize a word in the middle of a sentence. As Karl said, shift+space should only scroll up in situations where space scrolls down.

Karl said it works in the help system, but he was at least misleading. it doesn't work in winhelp.exe/winhlp32.exe. Basically it works in mshtml.dll which is used by iexplore.exe, msimn.exe and hh.exe (the chm hypertext based help browser). It doesn't work in explorer.exe where shift means range select and space can be paired w/ ctrl to indicate toggle or used only to select the currently active (* i use classic mode, not html view so when i say active i don't mean like :active) item. It's amazing w/ all of the apps in windows i can't think of a 4th client. I can tell you that Microsoft Reader does not recognize shift-space. I can say w/ some certainty that Microsoft would have considered this feature because Reader has a feature that 'remembers furthest page' -- Reader might be microsoft's attempt to hook people into eCommerce for books. Reader might be considered a model app for accessibility, or perhaps inaccessibility, MS chose to stray from many conventions in trying to reproduce the behaviors of a book, so if they decided not to put shift space in, it might say something, or it might not. Or maybe we'll have to wait for Reader 4.0 before we start pointing to it as a model...

timeless: you didn't mention which of those apps support space for scrolling down...

sorry, does not: MSReader.exe explorer.exe winhelp.exe winhlp32.exe do: iexplore.exe msimn.exe hh.exe -other behavior: acrord32.exe (acrobat5). Shift+Up = PageUp, Shift+Down = PageDown Space changes cursor from Ibeam to Hand -- this is actually an interesting behavior, almost useful -- unfortunately it doesn't really work if you need to use space to enter text -- or it does if we assume that no one cares about text when they are using space like this. Control changes cursor from Ibeam to Ibeam Collumn Select (or Zoom in to out) or vice versa depending of course on your active tool. Ok. give the adobe people a cookie, their drop down button menu widgets are actually useful. -- Sigh it's offtopic, but it lets you choose to 'expand this button' which means that instead of one zoom button that shows whichever you last used, you can have side by side buttons (plus a little collapse the buttons widget). Does anyone want feedback from gsview? *gasp/cough/wheeze*

over to default owner, cc'ing xpapps

-> taking, but not a priority now

It may be a slightly different problem. Using my new test case in bug 50255, pressing Shift+Space seems to ignore the Space in the keypress event. It also kind of ignores it when pressing Shift+A. The difference using an alpha character is that the keyChar changes from lowercase to uppercase. So without Space pressed keyChar='a' and with Space pressed keyChar='A'.

Wow, I messed that one up. "seems to ignore the Space" --> "seems to ignore the Shift" "So without Space pressed keyChar='a' and with Space pressed keyChar='A'." --> "So without Shift pressed keyChar='a' and with Shift pressed keyChar='A'."

-> me

Checked in with 122017.

since you backed out the fix for 122017, i'll reopen this...unless this particular issue remains resolved. ;)

This patch allows you to scroll up and down, even when checkboxes have focus :-(

neil: what's wrong with that ? I really hate having to unfocus the checkbox before I can move down/up the page at http://freshmeat.net/ Ideally for me, checkboxes would only gain sticky focus when navigated to via the keyboard, not the mouse (after the mouse click can only do one useful thing : enable/disable the check). I suppose I am not universally agreed with though :)

-> default owner

Blake Ross: > Anyone want this one? Right here! I use it all the time with IE... Prog. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&th=2d7cd2e5cda47272&seekm=3C60DF5E.4080201%40tracker.xeger.net#link4

Blake Ross: > Anyone want this one? I want it to! As an OSX laptop user that has used this in Netscape 4.7+, Omniweb, and many standard OSX apps for a couple of years, this would be very consistent and desirable considering other alternatives are cumbersome. Incidently, it fails to work in OSX IE 5.1 as well.

+1 here. Shift-space for scrolling up is very convenient to me, where two fingers of my left hand would stay at the Shift and the Spacebar to scroll a page up and down, while my right hand stays at the mouse. No more lifting my right hand to reach PgUp/PgDn keys. Opera 6 now also has this feature.

*** Bug 140210 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 147327 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Quote: "where two fingers of my left hand would stay at the Shift and the Spacebar to scroll a page up and down, while my right hand stays at the mouse. No more lifting my right hand to reach PgUp/PgDn keys." (sh, comment #35). Exactly my case. Any computer gamer will tell you that the best key bindings are located at the left side of the keyboard, at least for frequently accessed functions. I browse the web similarly to the way I play Quake. in both cases it is the quickest and most efficient method. Prog.

-> Andreww

Ok, so the challenge for this seems to be 1) implement shift-space to scroll up except for: 2) when you are typing in some textfield and accidently hit shift-space (perhaps typing caps) 3) something about checkboxes and sticky focus... can someone enlighten me about that?

Shift+Space should scroll up whenever Space scrolls down. Checkboxes and textareas already handle shift+space as the same as space, which is good and might this bug easier to fix (we don't have to worry about shift+space bubbling when it shouldn't).

I would also like shift+space (or some other key, perhaps "-") to scroll the message pane up in the mail and news window no matter where the focus is, just as space scrolls down no matter where the focus is. Forgive me if there is already a way to do this. By the way, where is the binding that makes space scroll down in the mail and news window regardless of focus?

> By the way, where is the binding that makes space scroll down in the mail and > news window regardless of focus? I'd like to know, too, but you'll have to ask a mail person (or file a mail bug); I doubt anyone on this bug would know.

Filed mail bug 161331.

Would making shift+space generate a   help?

I too have gotten used to expecting shift-space to scroll up after using IE for a while. How about some other key-combination such as Option-Space or (Apple) Command-Space? Does that result in fewer conflicts? This key-combo only needs to be active in windows that are non-editable.

Fine, fine, use "fn" + "Up arrow" or "down arrow" (pg up, pg dn), but I don't like it cuz I HAVE to use the "fn" + key to do this as I am using a laptop (this only works on iBooks and Titaniums... Apple stuff...)

I think this was just fixed in bug 104371.

I can no longer reproduce. 2002110808-trunk/Win2k.

2002111003-trunk/MacOS 9.2.2 and 2002111108-trunk/FreeBSD work fine now. This was fixed.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 104371 ***

yop