Closed Bug 122659 (cal-synchronization) Opened 23 years ago Closed 19 years ago

Synchronization tracking bug (Calendar Requirements Document, section 15)

Categories

(Calendar :: General, defect)

Product:
Calendar
Component:
General
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
VERIFIED INVALID

People

(Reporter: chris, Assigned: mostafah)

References

(
URL
)

Details

(Keywords: meta) 

This is a tracking bug for Synchronization, section 14.0 of the Calendar 
Requirements Document.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
Blocks: calendar
Bugspam: Adding meta keyword to tracking bugs, something they should have had
from the start. :P
Keywords: meta
Alias: cal-synchronization
Default QA Contact for Calendar has changed.  If you wish to remain the QA
contact for this bug, feel free to change it back.
QA Contact: colint → brantgurganus2001
New contact from mikep@oeone.com to mostafah@oeone.com
Filter on string OttawaMBA to get rid of these messages. 
Sorry for the spam.
Assignee: mikep → mostafah
I would LOVE to see synchronization with Nokia and Sony-Ericsson mobile phones
Maybe one of the ways is to use SyncML (on the serverside)?
URL: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calen...
OS: other → All
Hardware: PC → All
Summary: Synchronization tracking bug (Calendar Requirements Document, section 14.0) → Synchronization tracking bug (Calendar Requirements Document, section 15)
Before re-inventing the wheel, multisync.sf.net has managed to synchronise
Evolution to several devices, including PocketPC & Cell Phones (by IR,
bluetooth, and so on). It works great with my SonyEricsson T68i, and I'd love
use it to sync Mozilla Calendar!

Just a hint ;-)
I would like to sync my Calendar to my iPod which actually accepts the iCal format.
Just storing my views on calendar synchronization. Most has been expressed on
netscape.public.mozilla.calendar before.

Synchronisation is often supported by external programs (like the one
mentioned in comment 6). So the easiest and (arguably) also the best
way to support synchronisation would be to make it possible for
external application to support it.

Looking at the plan from Penn State (in bug 217550) it seems like we
want external programs to be able to access the XPCOM-interfaces.
These interfaces probably also needs to be somewhat adapted to the
needs of synchronisation software. As far as I know Mozilla doesn't
include any standard way of giving external programs access to XPCOM
interfaces, but work is done in the area. XPCOM2CORBA
<http://xpcom2corba.sunsite.dk/> could be used, which should be
suitable for programs in the Gnome environment and of course any other
programs willing to use CORBA.

An easier way might be to simply read and write the iCalendar-files
stored by Mozilla calendar for internal use. To prevent data loss
MozCal needs to be told when to store and re-read the calendar-files.
On unix introducing new remote-commands
(http://www.mozilla.org/unix/remote.html) seems like the natural way.
When this is done programs like this SYNCAL
<http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/syncal/> can be used.

Another option would be to make Mozilla implement SyncML (the issue of
bug 121948), but that seems to be a larger project. I would say that a
generic, platform independant, syncML support in Mozilla would be a
really good thing. This could then be used for several applications in
Mozilla. For synchronization making Mozilla a Syncml server seems most
appropriate. Making Mozilla a SyncML client is more of an issue for
bug 122656.

Unfortunately Palm devices as far as I know generally don't support
syncML natively, so you would need third party products to make use of
the SyncML support for the Palm. Palm will probably get native support
"soon" though.

(In reply to comment #4)
> I would LOVE to see synchronization with Nokia and Sony-Ericsson mobile phones

Concerning sync with mobile phones, there are lots of work done with the Sony
Ericsson T68i that can be found on sourceforge, mainly because it does support
some mobile-dedicated APIs (which I have forgotten the name).

Now, I have a Nokia so I'm focusing on that brand of mobile phones.
I've just heard of some open-source project in C / C++ about exchanging datas :
http://www.mwiacek.com/gsm/soft/gammu.html .

About the question : which nokia should the sync be cared of for ?
There are three different operating systemes from Nokia : Series 30 (old),
Series 40 (low- & middle-class phones), Series40+ and Series45 (same as Series40
concerning the datas) and Series60 (Symbian). The latter is of course the one
used for the best phones, usually provided with plenty of ways to communicate
with other devices (IrDA & BlueTooth), just to give you an idea, PERL is on its
way for Symbian.

Focus should thus be given to looking how to sync with Series60 ans Series40.
Nokia provides a proprietary software that can get a backup of the events on the
calendar, but I can't understand it, seems like it's binary.
(In reply to comment #9)

There exists two standards for synchronizing calendar (and address) data with
mobile phones: IrMC and SyncML, of which SyncML is the new and emerging standard.
Both standards include synchronization over IrDA & BlueTooth. SyncML is designed
to be more flexible in both which kinds of data you can synchronize and which
protocols the synchronization can go over. Currently SyncML is mostly used over
HTTP, while IrMC continues to be used over IrDA & BlueTooth.

I haven't found any definitive list of phones supporting IrMC or SyncML, but
most phones with IrDA and/or Bluetooth seems to support IrMC. The SyncML support
varies and seems to be present mostly in phones with GPRS support. 
Nokia have a list of their phones with SyncML-support here:
http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,2561,00.html

Unfortunately since the standards can be implemented a bit differently support
for one phone doesn't imply automatic support of all others. Nokia have a
history of doings things a bit different...
(In reply to comment #8)

> An easier way might be to simply read and write the iCalendar-files
> stored by Mozilla calendar for internal use. To prevent data loss
> MozCal needs to be told when to store and re-read the calendar-files.
> On unix introducing new remote-commands
> (http://www.mozilla.org/unix/remote.html) seems like the natural way.
> When this is done programs like this SYNCAL
> <http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/syncal/> can be used.

I have to correct myself here: SYNCAL doesn't handle iCalendar-files but files
from the unix ical program. These formats are unrelated.
Depends on: 210507
Depends on: 176730
How about synchronizing information over http with ics-files?
That could really spark a group/share aware sence into the app.
As one of the MultiSync (multisync.sf.net) developers, I would request that you
make an API available for syncing and allow external applications to interface
with other programs/devices.

SyncML is an option, but it is not a panacea. The specification is complex, and
different implementations do not always play together nicely. It is also
possibly patent-encumbered.

If it isn't SyncML, then please make an API available that allows an external
syncing application to identify itself and then be able to:
- request any calendar changes since the last time
- add/delete/modify calendar entries
The API should ideally talk in iCal format.

Either way, if you do this then it will open up Mozilla Calendar to other
applications that have already done the work to talk to numerous other devices
and programs, such as MultiSync.
(In reply to comment #13)
> As one of the MultiSync (multisync.sf.net) developers, I would request that you
> make an API available for syncing and allow external applications to interface
> with other programs/devices.
...
> The API should ideally talk in iCal format.

How hard is this to do?   Could you please post pointers to the API
documentation, so that people can judge how much work is involved (and get
started easily)?  Talking to Multisync sounds like it's really worthwhile since
you can talk to many commonly used devices already.  

This would also spark interest in the calendar project since the userbase would
increase, leading to faster development (hopefully!).

I found some infos: 

http://iwebcal.com/doc/index.php

http://www.softwarestudio.org/libical/ (IETF's iCalendar Calendaring and
Scheduling protocols. (RFC 2445, 2446, and 2447).)
There's SyncML API Native in C++ available from Sync4J project at
http://sync4j.funambol.com/main.jsp?main=download

(In reply to comment #13)
> As one of the MultiSync (multisync.sf.net) developers, I would request that you
> make an API available for syncing and allow external applications to interface
> with other programs/devices.

I totally agree with this. Multisync already works with most phones and PDA and
it's plugin based approach could make the integration of Mozilla Calendar into
the list of supported product very fast.

On a related subject, did you request the same kind of API to the Mozilla Mail
developers ? Syncronising contacts would be a very neat feature as well !

Maybe you could describe the API used by Multisync to speak with Evolution and
if this API can be reproduced for Mozilla Calendar (and contacts), the Evolution
plugin could become an Evolution&Mozilla plugin thus reducing the amount of work
needed.
I would like to see synchronization with Yahoo! calendar (calendar.yahoo.com)

Yet another unuseful comment:

I have been watching the sunbird project for a while and I have to say that the
current lack of synchronisation with in particular SonyEricsson phones is THE
ONLY STOPPER for me to use Sunbird!

If it came with synch support I would switch immediately from my current Lotus
Organizer and sometimes M$ Outlook to Sunbird. Unfortunately I am not a
programmer...
(In reply to comment #18)
> Yet another unuseful comment:
> 
> I have been watching the sunbird project for a while and I have to say that the
> current lack of synchronisation with in particular SonyEricsson phones is THE
> ONLY STOPPER for me to use Sunbird!

(In reply to comment #19)
sorry for this (I've pressed submit accidentally).
From my point of view - it lacks support of synchornization with Siemens mobile
phones.
Point of view depends on mobile device used ;)

No one has mentioned using INtellisync which comes standard with most Palm PDAs.
It is used to sync between MS Outlook & Palm. It can also be used to go between
MS  Outlook & Yahoo Calender. This might be an avenue to use.
(In reply to comment #21)
> No one has mentioned using INtellisync which comes standard with most Palm PDAs.
> It is used to sync between MS Outlook & Palm. It can also be used to go between
> MS  Outlook & Yahoo Calender. This might be an avenue to use.

Problem here is that it's proprietary.  IIRC there's licensing to develop for
their sync platform.

Not to mention you'd likely have problems getting code checked in because of
licensing issues.

It's already been done for the address book in Thunderbird... using a strait
sync with the Palm SDK.  So I think it is doable for Calendar as well.
I am in the process of migrating MS Outlook to Mozilla and need to Synchronize
Calendar (in addition to Address Book, which is OK) to Palm Top.
If I cannot do that, I cannot migrate fully as yet, and so far Mozilla beats MS
IE tons!!!!!
Help.
When can I do it?
Best Regards
Carmen Guimarães Mehedff - desperate
iPod Sync coming soon!

I got my iPod syncing with Mozilla Thunderbird's address book already.  I'll
take a stab at syncronizing the calendar with Sunbird soon.

Extension for Thunderbird's address book should have a 0.1 release soon.

:-D 

Sunbird rocks!  It's next on my list.
Can Ipods sync like Palm Pilots now a day?
Depends on: 271240
Another, hopefully useful, piece of information: somebody mentioned
multisync.sf.net as a possible source of information and code. I want to point
out the excellent floAt's Mobile Agent, http://fma.sourceforge.net/. This gem
synchronizes phone book, calls, SMSs, etc. with newer Sony Ericsson phones, and
I understand the cvs versions are already able to synchronize the calendar as
well. I think the code is written in Delphi, but the license being open it could
be useful to get ideas from.

As somebody else said, the only reason I haven't ditched Outlook is because of
the tight integration it provides between e-mail, phone book, calendar and
synchronization with my Sone Ericsson T616. I would switch to Thunderbird in the
blink of an eye if it made synching possible.

I am wondering why this has been pushed back to 2.0 for a target milestons? With
67 votes, why would this be so low on the priority list.

Not a whole lot of people in the world use computer calenders, but I would bet
80%+ of those people that do sync their calendar with something. Releasing
Sunbird without this makes little no sense to me.

I don't mean to sound critical, because you guys are awesome to make this things
open source and all, but this seems like one of those features that is make or
break for a calendar.

Thanks for all your hard work.
I think that synch with mobile devices should be one of the first priority for a
PIM program: I hope to see the program compatible with SE P800 asap.

Congrat for your work, VERY good.
I beg you to reconsider the virtues of basic *nix design philosophy: one well
crafted tool for each trade that does it right - and all able to cooperate. 

The synchronization  should definitely be left over to a separate application --
which in turn needs to become a project on its own (cf. Apple's iSync, a well
done piece IMO). Think organic, cooperating modules - not bloatware.

And, please, synchronization is imho of *absolutely vital importance* for
computer based calendars and organizers, at least for anybody who has a reason
to use one. Therefore make this an issue of utmost importance. Urgent. Now. ;-) 


btw, would you like to add "conversion", "ecommerce", and "interop" to the keywords?
I beg you to reconsider the virtues of basic *nix design philosophy: one well
crafted tool for each trade that does it right - and all able to cooperate. 

The synchronization  should definitely be left over to a separate application --
which in turn needs to become a project on its own (cf. Apple's iSync, a well
done piece IMO). Think organic, cooperating modules - not bloatware.

And, please, synchronization is imho of *absolutely vital importance* for
computer based calendars and organizers, at least for anybody who has a reason
to use one. Therefore make this an issue of utmost importance. Urgent. Now. ;-) 


btw, would you like to add "conversion", "ecommerce", and "interop" to the keywords?
hmm... It is interesting that the roadmap has file formats missing for a couple
of mobile phones. A lot of the phones especially the ones people would like to
synchronize with use SyncML now. I think the neatest thing would be to be able
to sync with a server (via http), maybe if you take a look at a service like -
http://www.mobical.net you will understand the reasoning behind it... I
personally would like to be able to synchronize with both the phone directly,
and the remote server. I think remote sync would be the top of my list though,
as I don't necessarily like keeping these files on my mobile. So maybe instead
of a bunch of mobiles, you should just change the roadmap to say SyncML and
Remote sync? Anyways, I just can't wait till this all comes together... I wish I
could code all of this, but so far mozilla just seems to complicated... rather
stick to PHP :)
concerning multiple nokia file formats:

nokias standardsoftware "pc suite" comes with different file formats as
mentioned above, but all "pc suite" versions can sync with standard messaging
software as there is: lotus, lotus notes, ms outlook.
If its not possible for Mozilla to comply with all nokia standards maybe its
possible to comply with a outlook or lotus standard, so mozilla can easily be
integrated as standard sync in the "pc suite" software.

(In reply to comment #31)

I fully agree with Vassili: I was experimenting SynchML a couple of week ago
(I've no longer free time for this right now :(  ) and I think this should be
enough to solve any Synch problem.

I strongly suggest to the group to stop focus on single formats and go for an
"universal" way, as SynchML is. And don't be scared, almost any phone and ppc
has this ability.
Nokia Mobile phones could be syncronized with SyncML as i can remember -- thats
the way MS Oulook does the job. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=SyncML might help... forum.nokia.com also has
some good documentations on that issue
Blocks: majorbugs
No longer blocks: majorbugs
I have a Treo 650.  is there gonna be a way for me to sync my sunbird calender
info and thunderbird contacts on to my treo?  i would love to get totally away
from microsoft outlook which syncs it now and i'm hoping sunbird will
incorporate that sync feature as well and most of outlooks funtions.
I believe SyncML would be a way to go.  If Calendar had support for SyncML, it
would be possible to synchrozine calendars with:

 - many newer mobile phones (list seems to grow each day)
 - PalmOS devices
 - Outlook (there's SyncML plugin for Outlook available)
 - Horde Kronolith application
 - probably many other devices

I'm following development of Horde project, and while SyncML support in Horde is
still a feature under intensive development, people overthere are reporting
success stories syncronizing between Horde/Kronolith, Outlook and mobile devices
such as mobile phones (all using SyncML as protocol).

There's list of compliant applications/devices at:

http://www.openmobilealliance.org/tech/affiliates/syncml/syncml_compliant_products.html

Note that the list contains only applications/devices that went through official
compliance testing, the full list of applications/devices is probably much larger.

Just my 2 cents.
I believe SyncML would be a way to go.  If Calendar had support for SyncML, it
would be possible to synchrozine calendars with:

 - many newer mobile phones (list seems to grow each day)
 - PalmOS devices
 - Outlook (there's SyncML plugin for Outlook available)
 - Horde Kronolith application
 - probably many other devices

I'm following development of Horde project, and while SyncML support in Horde is
still a feature under intensive development, people overthere are reporting
success stories syncronizing between Horde/Kronolith, Outlook and mobile devices
such as mobile phones (all using SyncML as protocol).

There's list of compliant applications/devices at:

http://www.openmobilealliance.org/tech/affiliates/syncml/syncml_compliant_products.html

Note that the list contains only applications/devices that went through official
compliance testing, the full list of applications/devices is probably much larger.

Just my 2 cents.
QA Contact: gurganbl → general
*** Bug 322409 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
We don't need this tracking bug, because the underlying requirement document is outdated and has therefore been removed.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 19 years ago
Resolution: --- → INVALID
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
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