User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 Build ID: 20180516032328 Steps to reproduce: I tried to visit support.mozilla.org, to solve some accessibility problems. But the text is tiny and barely readable. I use my own font size settings to try to make pages readable, and do not allow pages to override these settings-- yet somehow I can't keep this page from overridng my settings. Actual results: The text is tiny and barely readable, and obviously gnores my font size settings. Expected results: The text should follow users' font size settings, so we can make it readable. First, the site should respect user preferences, I don't know how it overrides them. Second, Firefox should respect user preferences.

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #0) > I use my own font size settings to try to make pages readable, and do not > allow pages to override these settings Please post these exact settings.

20 pt Andika.

MarjaE is right. The body text of support.mozilla.org webpages ignores the users' font size settings. I visited and examine this page: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/font-size-and-zoom-increase-size-of-web-pages and this CSS rule body { color: #484848; font-family: 'Open Sans',Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; text-align: left; } coming from https://static-media-prod-cdn.sumo.mozilla.net/static/build/common-min.f67f658575d2.css sets the font size to an arbitrary, absolute (*_not relative_*) value. It does not match the user's preferred font size for reading unstyled body text. 14px is even smaller than the default font size of Firefox and other mainstream browsers. support.mozilla.org webpages are in direct conflict and contradiction with WCAG 2.1, 1.4 Distinguishable, 1.4.4 Resize Text advisory techniques and understanding. " (...) Some websites may display text in fonts that are difficult to read, and other sites may rely on the browser's default fonts. (...) **_However, many web pages specify their own fonts, so your choices will have no effect on such pages._** " coming from https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we#w_overriding-page-fonts ... and such support.mozilla.org accessibility webpage does exactly that: it specifies the font size and it prevents users from viewing such webpage according to their preferred-for-reading font size. There is a blatant incoherence and a cynical accessibility inconsequence here. From an accessibility perspective, at least from an user-friendly font size angle, support.mozilla.org accessibility webpages deny to users the accessibility they advocate. They explain an accessibility feature that they neutralize and disable in the very webpage which explain such feature. - - - - - - We have reported this before: bug 859568 Product: www.mozilla.org Component: Pages & Content Summary: Paragraph font size should match user-preferred font size

MarjaE: if I was your boss, you would get a raise. Marking as NEW

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 20180516032328 (In reply to MarjaE from comment #0) > I use my own font size settings to try to make pages readable, and do not > allow pages to override these settings-- yet somehow I can't keep this page > from overridng my settings. (In reply to MarjaE from comment #2) > 20 pt Andika. Those aren't complete settings, since you mentioned you don't allow sites to override your settings. If you're talking about the "Fonts & Colors" section of about:preferences#general, that's just the default font and size; it doesn't override anything specified by sites. In order to do that, you need to click the Advanced… button and use the drop-down menu next to "Minimum font size". "Fonts for: Latin" and "Minimum font size: 24" works for me, using the following support article as an example: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/export-firefox-bookmarks-to-backup-or-transfer

(In reply to Gingerbread Man from comment #5) > If you're talking about the "Fonts & Colors" section of > about:preferences#general, that's just the default font and size; What you are saying is not perfectly true or, at least, completely correct. The "Fonts & Colors" section of about:preferences#general still acts as user preferred font setting as well. Before minimum font size was introduced, those "Fonts & Colors" settings were the user preferred font settings. And they had default values: 16px for font size and the font face was the os-default font. > it doesn't > override anything specified by sites. We are talking about support.mozilla.org webpages here... and not just any webpages from any website done by an amateur or unknown person crafting his/her website... > In order to do that, you need to click > the Advanced… button and use the drop-down menu next to "Minimum font size". > > "Fonts for: Latin" and "Minimum font size: 24" works for me, using the > following support article as an example: > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/export-firefox-bookmarks-to-backup-or- > transfer The bug report as originally edited still stands despite your step-by-step explanations. 1- support.mozilla.org webpages (even those specifically about accessibility! even the one about how to set a minimum text size!) ignore, neutralize and override the user preferred font size 2- support.mozilla.org webpages use a light gray (#484848) color for its text, therefore reducing color contrast which is a well-known readability reduction factor 3- support.mozilla.org webpages use an arbitrary font size with an absolute unit (px) for unstyled body text: a wide majority of accessibility advocacy groups and accessibility experts do not recommend such coding practice and formally discourage such coding practice (see bug 859556) 4- support.mozilla.org webpages use an arbitrary font size for unstyled body text that is less than browser default value (16px): many accessibility advocacy groups and accessibility experts do not recommend such coding practice and formally discourage such coding practice 5- support.mozilla.org webpages (and all other webpages under the control of Mozilla) should promote, adopt and embrace intentionally and deliberately the most accessible coding practices. If support.mozilla.org had done so, MarjaE would not have created this bug report.

(In reply to Gingerbread Man from comment #5) > In order to do that, you need to click > the Advanced… button and use the drop-down menu next to "Minimum font size". If you want the full settings: (I don't care if the original writer preferred serif or sans-serif or monospace, I want readable, and using the same font throughout avoids readability problems when sites use Cyrillic look-alikes for Roman letters.) For Latin: Andika 20 x3 For Greek: Andika 20 x3 For Cyrillic: Andika 20 x3 For Other Writing Systems: Andika 20 x3 (Although unfortunately it has poor support for some scripts)

Madalina -> do you know if reworking the font sizing is in scope for the work that is currently in progress?

We have only defined matching fonts to mozilla.org (Zilla Slab) and link to color as in scope for the current rebranding work.

(In reply to MarjaE from comment #7) > If you want the full settings: No mention of a minimum font size. You set the summary of this report to "Support.mozilla.org overrides user font size settings" yet you don't override the site's font size. Again, 1. Those are just defaults that are used when the site doesn't specify a font, or specifies a generic font family like serif. If you want to override the font used by the site, you need to click the Advanced… button and uncheck "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above". 2. The default font size is used when the site doesn't specify one. It's also the base when the site specifies a relative size rather than a fixed one, like SuMo currently does. If you want to override the font size used by the site, you need to click the Advanced… button and pick a number next to "Minimum font size". (In reply to Gérard Talbot from comment #6) You've morphed this into something different than what was reported. If you're intent on going that route, at least change the summary as well, since it's invalid as worded.

I thought I had used a minimum font size in my settings, but I had disabled the minimum font size from my settings, in favor of using an adjustable minimum from the add-on "Zoom Page WE." Sometimes enabling the minimum font size in my settings will sometimes change the settings, and that *does* increase font size on support.mozilla.org, and will sometimes revert to the old settings. That means the site's "only" overriding preferred font sizes, and add-ons to adjust minimum font sizes, rather than Firefox settings for minimum font sizes. Talbot's notes seem relevant to me.

(In reply to Gingerbread Man from comment #10) > you don't > override the site's font size. Again, > 1. Those are just defaults that are used when the site doesn't specify a > font, (...) > 2. The default font size is used when the site doesn't specify one. It is a default font size that the user can change. Thus it actual becomes as well the preferred font size for the user. In the "Fonts & Colors" section of about:preferences#general interface, none of such function (explanations, instructions) can be read or is presented to the user. Only after a lot of trials and errors and after examining CSS code of webpages may an user be able to figure out and untangle all this. A wide majority of reasonable users will reach the conclusion that this "Fonts & Colors" section of about:preferences#general interface is not what it seems or that such setting rarely works for them when they visit websites. > It's also the base when the site specifies a relative size rather than a fixed > one, like SuMo currently does. SuMo (support.mozilla.org) webpages do not specify a relative size. That goes against a very wide majority of accessibility groups: WCAG1, WCAG2, WAI, W3C Quality assurance, Nielsen Norman Group, etc. SuMo (support.mozilla.org) webpages specify unstyled body text size that is less than browser default value (16px). That goes against many accessibility experts and groups: Oliver Reichenstein, D Bnonn Tennant, Martin Pielot, Chris Beal, Lighthouse International, Nielsen Norman Group, Vincent Flanders, Jim Wilkinson, Stephen Poley, Daniel Tobias, webpagemistakes.ca, etc. > If you want to override the font size used by > the site, you need to click the Advanced… button and pick a number next to > "Minimum font size". IE6 to IE11 and Edge use an interface (under the name Accessibility) that, in my opinion, is clearer than what Firefox does. But even with an ideal GUI (that would use the verb override) in Firefox, I still would not and will not support how support.mozilla.org webpages are coded in terms of font size. > You've morphed this into something different than what was reported. MarjaE uses the verb override 4 times in the summary and in the description. And you keep saying that MarjaE does not override the site's specified font size. The least to do here is - to make the "Fonts & Colors" section of about:preferences#general interface clearer and to deliberately use the expression "override webpages' specified font size" in such interface - to have support.mozilla.org webpages (and all other webpages under the control of Mozilla) adopt and embrace intentionally and deliberately the most accessible coding practices with regards to font size. No one needs to override anything from anyone if and when support.mozilla.org webpages honor, comply with and respect the users' preferred font size for normal body text in the first place, to begin with. > If > you're intent on going that route, at least change the summary as well, > since it's invalid as worded. bugzilla.mozilla.org is a place where we should fix legitimate problems experienced by Firefox users.

I used to use a hard 16 pt minimum, then 20 pt minimum. However, I often have to toggle font sizes to keep text from overlapping text due to buggy page layouts. Apparently web extensions can set minimum font sizes on other pages, and can toggle them on other pages, but aren't allowed on support.mozilla.org