Once the first email account is created in Mozilla 1.2a, it becomes the default email (eventhough there is an 'Advanced' option to change the server name. When creating subsequent accounts, you can enter any Incomming server name, but you are not allowed to create an Outgoing or SMTP server name ... it is assumed that you would be using the 'Default' smtp server name. It is not an aberration that users may have more than one network that is accessible to them and that users who send email for Network "B" may not want to route it via Network "A"'s server network OR not have it handled by Network "A"'s servers. Sometimes a User has accounts in both Network "A" and Network "B" and the User may be connected directly to Network "A", however, the User wishes to send email to an account in Network "B" (depending on how Network "A" configured their servers and provided Network "A" has a route to Network "B" in its domain), the User wishes not to spend time processing through Network "A"'s servers or the User may not want email to be flagged by Network "A"'s servers. Therefore, while this may not be a bug ... it may be possibly an oversight. When creating unique email accounts, the ability to establish both Incomming and SMTP server names per email account.

Edit\Mail&NEws Account Settings\Outgoing server\Advanced\ (create new SMTP Account) Edit\Mail&News Account Settings\ACCOUNT#2\Advanced (Change to the new SMTP Account) or is there something missing ?

It is true that you can't specify an alternate SMTP server in the new account wizard, but you can after the account has been created.

The default SMTP server should be fine for the majority of cases. Where it's not, it can easily be changed once the account is set up. However, because the SMTP server is displayed in the final page before the account is created, it should be possible to change it before the account is created. So, I'm confirming the bug as "minor" on that basis. If someone else decides that it's a WONTFIX, the SMTP server should probably not be displayed in the final page before account creation, to avoid frustrating users.

*** Bug 71008 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

*** Bug 187597 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Like in: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119609 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151774 (etc many other smtp bugs) They all prove that smtp server should be an account setting instead of an global setting.

This patch makes it possible to define an SMTP server in the account creation wizard. It adds a checkbox, which after selection allows access to the SMTP definition panel.

could someone review the patch from Comment #7 ?

Scott and David, can you take a look at the patch? This feature (being able to specify an SMTP server when creating an account) would be handy when luring MS OE users. To most of them, POP3/IMAP and SMTP go as *a pair* so that they tend to get confused by Mozilla-Mail/TB's two step process of adding additional SMTP servers and mapping one of them to an account. Related bugs are bug 202468 and bug 222388. Note that the increasing number of SMTP servers refuse to 'relay' emails (when neither sender nor receipient belongs to their network) *even after* the STMP authentication. Moreover, as more domains publish their SPF records, there's more need to specify SMTP servers *per account* so that we'd better make it easier and more intuitive for end-users. In other words, Mozilla's model of one global (by default) SMTP server and multiple incoming account doesn't hold as widely as it did before. Another related issue is importing MS Outlook (Express) account settings. It seems like we don't preserve POP3/IMAP4 and SMTP server pairings. I guess there's a bug already filed on this.

updated to the trunk. However, I'm not asking for review because per-account SMTP server (set at the account creation time) is not added to the list of SMTP servers.

We are using a Mail server call Surgemail http://www.surgemail.com/ that uses Authenticated SMTP to map Friends emails to a per user account. For more information about the friends system click here. http://netwinsite.com/surgemail/help/friends.htm With Thunderbird missing this functionality, we end up losing the capability to properly map friends email addresses and therefore we end up losing a major functionality against spam. Please fix this and AS SOON AS POSSIBLE otherwise you end up making us go back to Outlook Express which we do not want to end up again. Please don't let your fellow sysadmins down trying to promote open-source software into the business sector.

re: comment #11 I'm not sure what you meant. Note that it's not the lack of a feature that is an issue here. The feature (to use different SMTP servers for different identities/accounts) is already there. This bug is just about making it possible to do that when a new account is created.

over to mscott.

The bug is that from a user standpoint, it is NOT obvious how this works. SMTP servers should be set up on an account by account basis, and should be available on each account page. I currently have three different SMTP servers that I use, and 4 email addresses that use the same SMTP server, and it sure as hell is NOT obvious to me that each account can use it's own SMTP server, rather than the global default server (and I am not an average user, I am a developer as well). By putting this information in the account section, as opposed to an SMTP section, it will be much less confusing to an average user, and is that not what you are looking for? To get average users to use Thunderbird rather than Outlook or Outlook Express by showing them that the Open Source side is as good, if not better than the closed source side?

First we don't want to loose our flexibility to have more than one SMTP per account. But users should have the option and they should be forced to choose ACTIVE (so they will recognize the choosen SMTP) an outgoing server. When using the account assistent to create a new account, we should have the following options: 1) use the SMTP server marked as standard 2) use one of the existing SMTP servers (we should have an dropdown menu showing server address AND username) > after choosing the smtp all available information should be shown (related to the new SMTP UI) 3) create a new SMTP server (with all the information related to the new SMTP UI) By having these options, we don't loose the flexibility on the one hand and on the other hand OE switchers would have the chance to have working accounts from this point on - without beeing frustrated because of none working SMTP configurations...

Wouldn't it be cool to be able to specify the SMTP server by identity? I would like to be able to use the same account while being at different locations, hence using different outgoing mail servers...

I'm suffering from this problem right now. I use a VPN connection to work from home. When working over the VPN, I use my work email account, and must connect to my company's internal smtp server. When connected to the VPN I cannot even see my personal email account's smtp server because I'm essentially part of my company's private network behind a firewall. When not connected to the vpn, my personal email account must use my email provider's smtp server, and I cannot even see my company's smtp server (because it's behind their firewall and I'm not inside that network if I'm not on the vpn). In Thunderbird version 1.0.2 (20050317) for Windows XP, which I'm using, there is no option in the Account Settings to assign an smtp server for use when sending mail from a specific account. For now the only solution is that when I connect to the vpn I must go into the Tools -> Account Settings -> Outgoing Server (SMTP) Settings dialog and actually delete my personal account's smtp server, and input my company's smtp server. Then when I log out of the vpn I must go delete the company's smtp server and re-enter the personal smtp server. If I click Advanced and enter both servers, the problem is that it will attempt to use the first smtp server entered, and get an error if it's on the wrong network, and stop attempting to send the mail. We really, really need to just be able to assign an smtp server as part of the account settings on a per-account basis, and not assume that smtp is a global setting which should be in force for all accounts.

(In reply to comment #17) > I'm suffering from this problem right now. I'm afraid you're not. > If I click Advanced and enter both servers, the problem is that it will attempt > to use the first smtp server entered, and get an error if it's on the wrong > network, and stop attempting to send the mail. > We really, really need to just be able to assign an smtp server as part of the > account settings on a per-account basis, You can assign different SMTP servers to different accounts.(see comment #12) This bug is not about adding that feature (which is already available) but about making it easier to use the feature.

Just a small suggestion: SMTP-servers for accounts is not enough for me. I need an SMTP-server for each identity. My scenario is: - all my accounts are fetched and stored in my local IMAP-server (so I've just 1 account) - I need to send E-mail (depending on the sender) to different SMTP-servers AFAIK, this is not supported. What I need is a further tab in the "identity-dialog" in which you can specify the SMTP-server settings or optionally some kind of default value for convenience.

(In reply to comment #18) > You can assign different SMTP servers to different accounts.(see comment #12) > This bug is not about adding that feature (which is already available) but about > making it easier to use the feature. > It's not only about adding the SMTP server definition to the Add Account wizard - it's also the fact that you can't tell one SMTP server from the other on the list. For example - suppose that two users are using the same SMTP server, each user with their own account. Each user needs to use his/her own credentials when logging in. If you look at the SMTP server list, you'd see th same server listed twice but you can't tell one from the other. If we change from global SMTP settings to per account settings, then SMTP servers can be identified by the account name. Otherwise, the user name needs to be added to the selectable SMTP server list.

(In reply to comment #20) > - it's also the fact that you can't tell one SMTP server from the other on the list. This sounds very familiar. This issue was already fixed by Scott in the trunk as far as I can remember. Try a trunk nightly build.

Yes, pleas fix that. The idea of separate SMTP servers configuration is IMHO confusing and moronic.

Btw.: 1. please change severity to normal or even major - this is the first see that new users will see, and it "small" (for advanced users) problem might convince newbies (or OE users) to choose other mailer or to stay with OE. 2. and by the way, the wizard is BAD. Bad for newbies, there should be more examples and parhaps small pointers / explanations in it. Not just "outgoing server", but like: " * Outgoing server (also called SMTP server, usually called smtp.something.com, like smpt.yahoo.com, if in doubt - ask admin of your email server, or go to WWW where you created your email account). * Dont have email account yet? Search for free[1] or payable[2] email accounts. " Where [1] and [2] can be links to google on "free email account", or to more mozilla-related search engine (there was something like that AFAIR), and so on.

thanks for updating this patch to the trunk back in December jshin. It still applies cleanly :) Here's a rough UI mock up of what I'd really like to see here. Re-use the menu list from the account manager's main panel that lists all of the available SMTP servers including "Use the Default Server". Now add a menu item to the combo box for Add Server. Selecting Add Server brings up a dialog prompt which asks for the host name of the smtp server. You enter that and that text now shows up in the menu list as the selected item. This menulist should be visible for all imap and pop account creations including the first one. If someone wanted to take a stab at this, that would be awesome. The widget already exists in am-main.xul/am-main.js.

There is one more thing missing in the account wizard for incoming AND outgoing servers: options for secure connection/authentication (SSL, TLS, ...).

(In reply to comment #25) > There is one more thing missing in the account wizard for incoming AND outgoing > servers: options for secure connection/authentication (SSL, TLS, ...). That's bug 221030 and it already has a patch which fixes this bug as well. Either the patch there can be simplified to add SSL/TLS setting for incoming server or it has to be combined with Scott's sketch for this bug.

Times running out for 1.5 for implementing the UI mock up I proposed above.

No one came up with a patch to match the proposal so this isn't going to make 1.5.

This quick made implementation of mockup. I have few question about it: 1) What should be done after adding new server, "add new server" option should be removed, it should be changed to "change newly defined server", or adding new server should be still alowed (this patch does 3) 2) Canceling wizard should delete newly added servers?

(In reply to comment #29) > 1) What should be done after adding new server, "add new server" option should > be removed, it should be changed to "change newly defined server", or adding > new server should be still alowed (this patch does 3) We should be happy with 3. > 2) Canceling wizard should delete newly added servers? The newly added servers shouldn't be a problem, so we could ignore (not delete them). If necessary users can sort and delete the SMTPs later in account manager.

(In reply to comment #29) > Created an attachment (id=205254) [edit] > Mockup implementation 1) I've have been testing your patch now. I'm able to create new SMTPs in account wizard and to choose between the available SMTPs. But in the next dialog the wizard everytimes tells me, he will use the default SMTP. Finishing the wizard and opening the account manager, I can see, the default SMTP is chosen. 2) We should move the incoming server username dialog/box in the same dialog as the incoming server itself. 3) The separator line should be below the global inbox option (global inbox is related to incoming server - not SMTP).

It seems there is no one else working on this, so I've been trying to combine Pawels mockup implementation with another option: "Leave messages on server" for POP accounts.

1) The option "Leave messages on server" is still not complete working: The following function (aw-server.js) seems to be correct: function setLeaveOnServer() { var pageData = parent.GetPageData(); var leaveOnServer = (document.getElementById("leaveOnServer")).checked; setPageData(pageData, "server", "leaveOnServer", leaveOnServer); } But in AccountWizard.js the following function doesn't set/write the leave_on_server option to the account data: function EnableCheckMailAtStartUpIfNeeded(newAccount) { // Check if default account exists and if that account is alllowed to be // a default account. If no such account, make this one as the default account if (!(gDefaultAccount && gDefaultAccount.incomingServer.canBeDefaultServer)) { am.defaultAccount = newAccount; } // turn on the new mail check at startup for all new accouts // we've introduced an option to leave messages on server for POP accounts newAccount.incomingServer.loginAtStartUp = true; newAccount.incomingServer.downloadOnBiff = true; newAccount.incomingServer.leaveOnServer = pageData.server.leaveOnServer.value; } The above function is correct working for the other 2 options in POP accounts (loginAtStartup and downloadOn_Biff). But I'm not able to get the leaveOnServer option to work. 2) The SMTP selection still doesn't work. It's possible to create additional SMTPs but the account wizard always selects the default SMTP. Scott / David could you have a look in this?

The diff tool has forgotten some entities in the DTD file in the last patch.

Anyone interested in resolving this bug?

(In reply to comment #37) > Anyone interested in resolving this bug? Since you have a patch, you could request reviews (click Edit on the patch attachment and fill in the blanks with suggested reviewers) and see if this is the right way to approach it. See http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/life-cycle.html for a good overview of how the process works, and where to find those suggested reviewers/owners.

I'm trying to get this patch to work - I've got the leave msgs on server part working, but creating a new smtp server isn't working yet.

I think this fixes the bugs you were seeing with the previous patch, Alex - can you try it out? I hope I haven't broken the ability for isp rdf files to specify the smtp server. There are two cases here - one where there are no accounts specified when the account wizard is run, and one where there is an existing account or accounts - most of these changes mainly affect the second case.

David your patch is working, but there are still some issues: 1) If a first account is existing and you're creating the second one, automatically an additional SMTP "null" will be created. 2) It's possible to choose between the TLS/SSL options for the SMTP server. But the chosen option seems not to be saved. We should save the option or hide the TLS/SSL options in account wizard. In my dreams, we would have the TLS/SSL options in outgoing and incoming server pages... 3) Opening the account wizard creates an error in error console: Fehler: redeclaration of const nsIFilePicker Quelldatei: chrome://messenger/content/am-identity-edit.js Zeile: 42

And one more thing... 4) Creating the 2nd SMTP server includes the related user name. This username is correct saved. But after closing the SMTP dialog, the login page is opened with incorrect information: - the text input box for incoming server username (this is correct) - the information about the used SMTP username of the default account (but there has to be the new username from smtpServer page. We should hide this (false) information

I thought I fixed 1) - did you create a new smtp server or pick an existing one? I'll look at 2). 3) existed with the previous patch and I could not for the life of me fix it. I'll look at 4) - was this when you created a new server or used an existing one?

I've been starting with a new/clean profile. Creating the first account is without problems. 1) When entering the smtpServer panel and one or more accounts are existing, the "null" SMTP is selected and shown in the drop down. This occurs in new profiles until I'm restarting Thunderbird. After the restart, this problem is "resolved". This behaviour is reproducible for new accounts. 4) This occurs for all none-default accounts (both: new created and existing).

Oh, and the "null" SMTP servers are gone out of the account manager > Outgoing Servers panel, after restarting Thunderbird.

>Creating the first account is without problems. I bet it's actually creating the first account that's causing the null smtp server to appear - that's one thing I haven't tested since I fixed the null smtp server problem I was seeing, which was that for every subsequent account I created, a null smtp server would get created, each time...

Alexander, this fixes the null smtp server problem, and perhaps the outgoing server name problem. I was not able to reproduce the problem where creating a new smtp server didn't remember the socket type (ssl/tls/etc), but I may not have understood that one (were you talking about setting it from the UI, or from ispdata?). I haven't fixed the nsIFilePicker error, but it seems harmless. I tried several things to fix that - someone better with xul/js is going to have to fix that one.

David, I've taken your last patch and fixed the remaining login page bug by removing/changing the related XUL- and JS-code. Additionaly we could remove the entities "haveSmtp2****" and "haveSmtp3****".

Using the latest patch, SSL/TLS is correct saved for new SMTP servers.

Comment on attachment 238262 [details] [diff] [review] fix login page looks good, thx! Scott, I'm thinking I could add the "server aging" setting, e.g., delete from server after 7 days setting to this ui, and then we can default leave on server to true. I'm thinking I'd do that after this patch lands.

David, Scott, could we have this in Trunk? Other people could test the patch in Trunk testbuilds?

(In reply to comment #50) > fix null server name problem To David Bienvenu : Following is test result with Tb trunk nightly(2007/4/23 build,MS Win XP), when same host/userid/port is specified for multiple SMTP definitions thru UI. > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp2.description", "smtp-a"); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp2.hostname", "aaa.aaa.aaa"); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp2.port", 25); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp2.username", "aaa"); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp3.description", "smtp-b"); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp3.hostname", "aaa.aaa.aaa"); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp3.port", 25); > user_pref("mail.smtpserver.smtp3.username", "aaa"); As far as I remeber, this was one of main reasons why SMTP server specification was removed from additional mail account definition. - When SMTP addition thru "Outgoing Server(SMTP)", user can see already defined SMTP entry, then users usually won't add same SMTP definition. - But while account wizard, user don't see multiple SMTP entries for same SMTP server, and many users specified same SMTP hostname/username many times. It caused confusion of users then produced many unwanted bugs. Because smtpserver.smtpN.description was not available in the past but is available now, it is not worse than before, but above problem is better to be resolved before release of this bug's enhancement if problem still remains, although above problem is completely independent from this bug's enhancement. Sorry but I didn't/won't open bug for above phenomenon, and I don't know whether already opened bug exists or not.

To David Bienvenu : Another request to you for issue relates to Bug 222388. Please consider default(or fallback) choice of "Use Dafault SMTP" instead of "SMTP which is currently set as default" when additional account too, before release of this enhancement. - When user specified same SMTP as "SMTP server currently set as default", "Issue warning and set 'Use Default SMTP'" may be reasonable way. This will reduce unwanted bugs of "change of default SMTP doesn't work". I saw "not very many but far greater than some" such bugs since I joined Bugzilla.

I've found the idea of a default smtp server to be really useful in situations where I had to change the smtp server I was using, due to network/firewall issues. So I'm not inclined to get rid of it...but I do like the idea of this patch.

the problem is not fixed yet. I set up individual imap after adding all accounts, but the program avtomatically send email to the primary imap account ---> error while sending mail error message. Can somebody to point, HOW I CAN CHANGE IMAP SETTINGS ? If it not a bug, that what is it? I cannot set it application to our office network, so, we need continue to use OUTLOoK while this will not fixed.

(In reply to comment #56) > Can somebody to point, HOW I CAN CHANGE IMAP SETTINGS ? Medvesonok, read following MozillaZine Knowledge Base articles first, please. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Mail_concepts http://kb.mozillazine.org/Multiple_SMTP_servers_-_Thunderbird http://kb.mozillazine.org/Multiple_identities_per_e-mail_account

(In reply to comment #57) > (In reply to comment #56) > Medvesonok, read following MozillaZine Knowledge Base articles first, please. Thanck You, but I read all of this articles 2 weeks ago, when try the Thunderbird 3.0. And I already change SMTP settings before make this bbug report. The problem isn't that I don't know, how to change SMTP settings for each account, Because I know it do for claw mail for Linux, and for MS Outlook. Just settings in TB do not changed, after I set them up, using the manage identities feature, they continue have the primary account settings for SMTP server, But I don't uderstand one thing: If Many people say about this bug, and ask to change it , because it's don't comfortable to make different profiles, if you need collect mail from few mailboxes ---> Why You try to explain me, how to properly use manual, if such many people reported about this bug about few year? I just one more people which report about this bug. I see that progam must be fixed. while it will be fixed, I can use another mail clients, no problem, as euodora or Microsoft outlook. They can collect and send multiple mailboxes without any problem. >

Medvesonok: Bugs are not fur such discussions, in bugs only belong informations for the developers and your discussion is also useless because this bug is open (the status is "NEW" and not "fixed" or "wontfix"), that means that it will be fixed someday. If you want to get this fixed faster, then you have to attach a patch or find someone who wants to work on this. If you need help with thunderbird then you have to ask for example in the mozillazine.org Forums and not in bugzilla

Comment on attachment 238262 [details] [diff] [review] fix login page I'm going to see what Neil thinks of this patch, but I need to see if it applies first.

I haven't tried applying the patch but the UI I'd go for would be a radiogroup like this: (.) Always use the default outgoing server (.) Always use this outgoing server: [smtp.example.net|V] (.) Create a new outgoing server (fields normally shown for a new outgoing server go here) For a first account the radiogroup would be hidden and only the first account fields would be visible.

On another pc I use clawsmail which allows mail to be sent using a separate smtp server for each imap account. In eudora 800b3 I cannot do this which is most annoying; seems that when I create imap accounts A,B,C and then write a message from account C the send action attempts to use the default smtp server for account A. This is poor functionality. The user should be able to create new accounts with a separate smtp server and upon completion see a list of smtp server in account settings. The user should be able to assign smtp server B to account C if required. Clawsmail is much better at multiple account management.

I'm working on this with the new auto config stuff. See bug 422814

Bienvenu, sr request (from the air) still needed? Also, the new autoconfig stuff has landed some time back....

I believe the whole bug could be closed, when AutoConfig is finished.

Comment on attachment 238262 [details] [diff] [review] fix login page clearing request - the new autoconfig stuff replaces this.

this is fixed by bug 422814