User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20021025 Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20021025 The bar is about one or two pixels overlapped with the window frame border. This makes the bar looks like "higher" (z-order) than the Window border. Please open a notepad, type some text to bring up the vertical scroll bar, and compare its look with that of mozilla. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. 2. 3. Expected Results: The vertical scroll bar should be one or two pixels left of its current position, thus that all the bars (menu bar, tool bar, status bar and the two scroll bars) can look in the same plane as the window frame resides.

a new finding: when no scroll bar is present, such as when first bring up the browser and no URL visited, the white client area in the window seems already infringing with the right border. That may be the cause. Please bring up a wordpad and you'll notice its right border without vertical scroll bar is different from Mozilla's right border without vertical scroll bar (classic theme).

The horizontal scroll bar has the same problem: it is one or two pixels too low so it infringes the bottom border of the window frame. It also should because of the following problem: when no horizontal scroll bar is present, the white client area of the window infringes into the bottom window border. - I'm discussing problems in the classic theme.

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Confirmed 2002102704/NT4, classic theme -- verticall scrollbar really overlaps the window border. Never noticed until intentively looked for it. ;)

the mail window seems to have the same problems in classic theme: 1) the main navigator window (top-left) overlaps the left border 2) the message directory window (top-right) overlaps the right border 3) the conent window (bottom)'s vertical scroll bar overlaps the right border, and its top should extend one or two pixels up 4) the horizontal bar of the bottom window should also extend its left end a little bit left-ward. 5) the column title bars of the two top windows are not of same height: in the left window "Name" etc are of a less height than "subject", "sender" etc in the right window. (height here for Y-order) 6) the column title bars above are higher (z-order) than the tool bar. Other objects are also found not all in the same plane.

Also in the classic theme: the progress bar in the browser is an evenly grep bar, but the progress bar in the mail/news window is a series of oblique stripes. Isn't it better to be consistent in all the cases? The progress bar in the browser doesn't position rightly - it is a little bit downward and touches the lower border of its bounding box. The padlock in the status bar has two vertical seperation lines to its right. Isn't that one is enough? Too many minor cosmetic issues I boost the severity of the bug from minor to normal. I suppose all these issues are fairly easy and quick to fix.

The position of the vertical scrollbar is intentional (bug 52888).

I think bug #52888 shouldn't be a bug. The border before fix is just fine, the the fix simply uglify the border and the vertical scroll bar. The gain (if it can be called a gain at all), is that when the window is maximized, the vertical scrollbar is at the right-most position, not just one pixel next to it (as in IE's case). But the IE's case is better - when maximized, the left border also has one pixel. The 'fix' #52888 is costing high and the gain is at best both trivial and arguable.

Moving the scrollbar to the right edge of the screen made it substantially easier to grab the scrollbar thumb with a mouse. Instead of having to get the cursor in a strip 16 pixels wide, I just have to get it to the edge of the screen. IMO, the efficiency gain is worth a visual glitch that gets only one bug report in a year.

Tha gain happened when the window is maximized. Why the normal window (nor maximized, nor minimized) should pay the price?

While I see why people wanted the border removed, it looks absolutely appauling having no sunken border on two of the four sides of the webpage (bottom and right). And, as was said it bug #52888 comment #7, having no borders here breaks the whole 'looks like everything else on Windows' thing, and thus it might ws well also have pink menus, Wingdings fonts and the like. :) I.e. either make it look like the platform it's supposed to be, or don't bother with it at all.

Strangely, the "modern" theme does not have this problem. I speculate the codes for the two themes are quite different. If that's the case, why not unite them into one theme (call it like "default" theme)?

The position of the vertical scroll bar in classic causes two visual problems: 1. Because of how the toolbar is drawn, the scrollbar appears to be a pixel or two outside of the window. 2. It destroys the 3D effect that "the content area is sunken" on one side of the content area. Seamonkey's Modern theme and Firefox's Classic theme solve #1 by doing the same thing to right border of the window where the toolbar is. Seamonkey's Classic theme should be changed to do the same thing. James thinks #2 is "appauling" [sic], but a minor visual glitch that almost nobody notices is a very small price to pay for being able to grab the vertical scrollbar hundreds of milliseconds faster.

Quite frankly, it makes the UI look like it was done by a complete amuture without a clue. What's scary is that it might be intentional. And it doesn't make it *any* easier for me to grab the scrollbar... What's needed right now is for someone to decide if it's OK to be crap-by-design, and WONTFIX this, or to actually say it should be fixed. A fix is pathetically simple. But it's pointless if no-one cares.

The scroll bar in firefox is not the "natural" Windows scroll bar. Why should we reinvent the wheel and make the code more complex? The fix should be quite easy and simple technically.