Closed Bug 488097 Opened 15 years ago Closed 15 years ago

Gmail IMAP setup doesn't link the GMAIL trash-folder

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Account Manager, defect)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Account Manager
Platform:
x86
Linux
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WORKSFORME

People

(Reporter: bugzilla.mozilla.org, Unassigned)

References

(Blocks 1 open bug)

Details

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009033100 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Firefox/3.0.8
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090227 Lightning/1.0pre Shredder/3.0b2

After setting up GMAIL-IMAP account, shredder only produces non-linked trash-folders.
Deleting a message within shredder will send it to nowhere - not to be found in GMAILs trash nor shredders trash.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. set up new GMAIL-IMAP account using the wizard
2. selecting a message from inbox and delete it by hitting DEL
Actual Results:  
message is gone nowhere

Expected Results:  
message should appear in GMAIL trash-folder: [Google Mail]/trash

Please refer to the general GMAIL-setup instructions for linking folders:
http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=78892&topic=12761&hlrm=en#

Please also take care for the language-specific details (trash-folder in german GMAIL-accounts is called "Papierkorb") and take the naming-decision from the account-information, not the language of shredder or something like that (for people who have different gmail-accounts with different languages). A discussion can be found here:
http://hogiblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/faq-about-gmail-imap-account-setup.html
http://hogiblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/gmail-imap-account-setup-16.html
First, please respect a rule at bugzilla.mozilla.org - one problem per a bug.
Second, see dependency tree for meta Bug 402793 before write complaints on Gmail IMAP.

> Deleting a message within shredder will send it to nowhere - not to be found in
GMAILs trash nor shredders trash.

Have you looked delete model setting in Server Settings? 

> After setting up GMAIL-IMAP account, shredder only produces non-linked trash-folders.
> Deleting a message within shredder will send it to nowhere - not to be found in
GMAILs trash nor shredders trash.

It's intentional setting.
Read Bug 400931(listed in dependency tree for Bug 402793, with "Show Resolved"). 
Please *READ* "Deleting:" section of the general GMAIL-setup instructions which you pointed.
> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=78892&topic=12761&hlrm=en#
Have you read following Q&A in web page you pointed?
> http://hogiblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/faq-about-gmail-imap-account-setup.html
> Q1. Why does the extension set the delete model to "Mark it as deleted", instead of "Move it to the Trash folder"?
>
> To mark a message in a folder as deleted means remove the label from the message.
> On the other hand, to move it to the trash means remove all labels attached to it and move it to the trash.
> If you set the option to "Move it to the Trash folder",
> messages will be completely removed even if you only want to remove the copies of the messages.
> It is very risky setting.

As written in "Deleting:" section, "Trash" FOLDER at Gmail Web Interface (== [Gmail]/Trash folder via Gmail IMAP) is very special folder.
So, initial setting of trash for Gmail IMAP account by Tb is;
 (a) Delete model : Remove it immediately
 (b) mail.server.serverX.trash_folder_name = [Gmail]/Trash
     (trash folder name used when "Move to this folder" is choosed)
(a) is based on Gmail's recommendation and particularity of [Gmail]/Trash.  
(b) is for avoiding confusion.
Folder name displayed at "Move to this folder" is lowest name only. So user can't  know "Trash" or "[Gmail]/Trash" via the displayed name. (already known issue) 

> Please also take care for the language-specific details.

Read thru Bug 467860 for issues around "language-specific details", which are made complicated by both localized name of Gmail & localized name of Tb.
See also Bug 476260. "How to improve it" is being searched in that bug.
This bug report is INVALID, if bug summary is what bug opener wants to say.
If this bug is design change request for initial setting of "Move to trash model" with trash folder==[Gmail]/Trash, I think WONTFIX.
(In reply to comment #2)
> This bug report is INVALID, if bug summary is what bug opener wants to say.
> If this bug is design change request for initial setting of "Move to trash
> model" with trash folder==[Gmail]/Trash, I think WONTFIX.

I don't think this is a request to change the initial setting, it's a request for message deletion to work the way users expect.  On every other IMAP server I've ever accessed, when I deleted a message, it disappeared from the folder I deleted it from and appeared in the Trash folder.  This bug, as I read the description, is simply asking for Thunderbird to behave the same when accessing Gmail IMAP servers as it behaves when accessing other ones.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true
To bug opener(pheidrias):

If you are requesting mail.server.serverX.trash_folder_name=[Google Mail]/Trash by Account Wizard for Gmail IMAP, please read Bug 467860 for issues around folder name(language/country dependent name by Google, confusion due to same localized name by Google & Tb, etc.).
Bug 476260 is already opened for improvement.
(In reply to comment #3)
>  This bug, as I read the
> description, is simply asking for Thunderbird to behave the same when accessing
> Gmail IMAP servers as it behaves when accessing other ones.

I'd take "real" imap over the google imap any day, but what can we do? This is how they decided to do their imap server implementation.
Thanks for the comments.

It is like Myk Melez posted: When TB supports Gmail IMAP as a special feature, it should provide user-expected functionality. Is there any idea on wether google is willing to improve its IMAP implementation? Maybe TB-developers can put a littlebit pressure on them?

Sorry, if my bug report was not in the right form or place - the other bug reports are hard to read for non-developers.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend,
pheidrias
(In reply to comment #6)
> if my bug report was not in the right form or place

As answered by Myk Melez(myk@mozilla.org) to Bug 482337 Comment #14, your bug report is absolutely "right form or place" since initial till now. Don't worry about it.
I merely tried to make "difference" in next context clear, as an volunteer.
  Complaint at bugzilla.mozilla.org about;
    Behavior of (Tb+Gmail IMAP) is different from user's assumption/expectation.

> When Tb supports Gmail IMAP as a special feature,
> it should provide user-expected functionality.

Ask Mozilla Messaging company to change Thunderbird to Gmail IMAP(and Gmail via Web Interface) compliant mailer.
Donation to Mozilla Messaging company or Mozilla foundation may be one of ways to put pressure them.

> Is there any idea on whether google is willing to improve its IMAP implementation?
> Maybe TB-developers can put a littlebit pressure on them?

Ask(or force) Google to change Gmail IMAP to ordinal/usual IMAP server.
Accumulation of Google's stock is simplest/quickest way to put pressure them :-)
To pheidrias(bug opener):
Bug 402793 Comment #13(and #14) is my quick summary about current restrictions.
(In reply to comment #0)
> Expected Results:  
> message should appear in GMAIL trash-folder: [Google Mail]/trash

If mail.google.com and Display Language=English(UK), trash folder name at Gmail Web Interface is changed to "Bin",  and is presented to Gmail IMAP client as "[Google Mail]/Bin".
I can't see "[Google Mail]/trash"('t" is lower case) at mail.google.com. 
I could see "[Gmail]/Trash"("T" is upper case), "Google Mail/Bin", and  "[Gmail]/<localized-name>" only.

pheidrias(bug opener), do you use googlemail.com? What "Display Language" of Gmail do you use?
Hi WADA!

You are right. It should be names "Trash" with upper case "T".

I have english (gmail.com, English(UK), "Trash") and german(googlemail.com, Deutsch, "Papierkorb") accounts.

(In reply to comment #9)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> > Expected Results:  
> > message should appear in GMAIL trash-folder: [Google Mail]/trash
> 
> If mail.google.com and Display Language=English(UK), trash folder name at Gmail
> Web Interface is changed to "Bin",  and is presented to Gmail IMAP client as
> "[Google Mail]/Bin".
> I can't see "[Google Mail]/trash"('t" is lower case) at mail.google.com. 
> I could see "[Gmail]/Trash"("T" is upper case), "Google Mail/Bin", and 
> "[Gmail]/<localized-name>" only.
> 
> pheidrias(bug opener), do you use googlemail.com? What "Display Language" of
> Gmail do you use?
> I have english (gmail.com, English(UK), "Trash") and german(googlemail.com,
> Deutsch, "Papierkorb") accounts.

If you use localized Tb(de version in your case), you can enjoy all of next Gmail IMAP related problems :-)
- googlemail.com : Account Wizard for Gmail IMAP doesn't support it yet.
- English(UK) : Issues relates to "[Google Mail] instead of [Gmail]".
- Deutsch/English(UK) : Issues due to difference between initial setting(Trash)
                        and localized folder name (Bin, Papierkorb) by Gmail.
- Deutsch : Confusion due to same localized name display of;
              "Papierkorb" for folder named "Trash" by localized Tb.
              "Papierkorb" for folder named "Papierkorb" by Gmail.
(In reply to comment #11)
> - googlemail.com : Account Wizard for Gmail IMAP doesn't support it yet.'

Actually, it does, but only for the locales where it's relevant.
To Myk Melez who changed this bug's Status from UNCONFIRMED to NEW on 2009-04-17, and who has mail addr of ...@mozilla.org, and who posted Bug 482337 Comment #14 :

Because this bug's Severity is not Enhancement, "changing Status from UNCONFIRMED to NEW" means "Problem due to flaw in code of Thunderbird is reproduced. It's found that flaw in code of Thunderbird really exists".
Myk Melez, what is "flaw in code of Thunderbird" in this bug?
(In reply to comment #13)
> Because this bug's Severity is not Enhancement, "changing Status from
> UNCONFIRMED to NEW" means "Problem due to flaw in code of Thunderbird is
> reproduced. It's found that flaw in code of Thunderbird really exists".

Erm, no, it just means that the reported problem has been confirmed by someone qualified to confirm bug reports, i.e. someone with "canconfirm" privileges, which in this case is me.

The problem might still turn out to be a bug in other software that Thunderbird interacts with, or the intentional behavior of Thunderbird, or something else besides a bug in Thunderbird.  Whether or not it is a "flaw in code of Thunderbird" is for Thunderbird developers to decide, as ultimately reflected in the resolution of the bug report.  It has no bearing on the status of the bug.
(Off-Topic)

(In reply to comment #14)
> Erm, no, it just means that the reported problem has been confirmed by someone
> qualified to confirm bug reports, i.e. someone with "canconfirm" privileges,
> which in this case is me.

"Bugzilla@Mozilla – A Bug's Life Cycle" defines Status as follows.
NEW is for next ASSIGNED or "passing to other with NEW" and future RESOLVED.
Where can I see description or definition like next?  
  NEW is merely status of "someone with canconfirm" privileges, which in this
  case is me, has changed form UNCONFIRMED".
Simply a result by that mozlla.org already changed definition but no one didn't update "A Bug's Life Cycle"? 

> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=fields.html#status
> "Bugzilla@Mozilla – A Bug's Life Cycle" 
>(For Status, picked up UNCONFRMED and NEW only)
> UNCONFIRMED
>  This bug has recently been added to the database. Nobody has validated that
>  this bug is true. Users who have the "canconfirm" permission set may confirm
>  this bug, changing its state to NEW. Or, it may be directly resolved and
>  marked RESOLVED. 
> NEW
>  This bug has recently been added to the assignee's list of bugs and must be
>  processed. Bugs in this state may be accepted, and become ASSIGNED, passed on
>  to someone else, and remain NEW, or resolved and marked RESOLVED.
(In reply to comment #15)
> Simply a result by that mozlla.org already changed definition but no one 
> didn't update "A Bug's Life Cycle"?

No.  Rather, that document describes "NEW"; it doesn't define it.  And its description is orthogonal to mine, both of which are correct.  Please take additional discussion on this topic to an appropriate forum.
There is no fault of Tb in this bug. Tb works as designed.
This bug is for complaint of next due to no reading of any Gmail Help.
  Behavior of (Tb+Gmail IMAP) is different from user's assumption/expectation.
Closing as INVALID.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 15 years ago
Resolution: --- → INVALID
(In reply to comment #17)
>   Behavior of (Tb+Gmail IMAP) is different from user's assumption/expectation.

Right, and that's a valid problem, although it might be a wontfix, if the Thunderbird developers responsible for the feature don't think it should work the way these particular users expect.  That, however, would be for those developers to decide.
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: INVALID → ---
Isn't this fixed now? We use gMail's localized trash folder now, afaik, and the new account config wizard no longer uses the delete immediately model by default...
(In reply to comment #19)
> Isn't this fixed now?

It doesn't appear to be fixed.  I just created a new profile and configured it with a single Gmail IMAP account.  After retrieving messages, I deleted one from the Inbox and then looked for it in the two Trash folders: the one at the top-level and the one inside the [Gmail] folder.  The message doesn't appear in either of them.
Using the old account wiz, or the new quick account setup?
(In reply to comment #21)
> Using the old account wiz, or the new quick account setup?

I used the dialog that appeared when I first started Thunderbird.  I suppose that is the old account wizard.  I'll try with the new quick account setup.
Even so, I'm surprised that you saw two trash folders...
I just tried with the new quick account setup (New > Mail Account (Quick Setup), and initially I saw the same behavior: the deleted message didn't show up in either Trash folder.

However, after restarting Thunderbird, the deleted message showed up in the top-level Trash folder.  And the messages I had deleted from the account I created using the old account wizard showed up in the [Gmail]/Trash folder.

So it looks like bienvenu is right that this works correctly now, and I'm resolving this worksforme.

(But there may be related issues that deleted messages don't show up in the Trash folder immediately and that the new quick account setup moves messages to the top-level Trash folder instead of the one in the [Gmail] folder, which should be filed as separate bugs.)
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 15 years ago → 15 years ago
Resolution: --- → WORKSFORME
bug 508026 has a patch in it that may fix some of the weirdness on first run with new quick account setup. The namespaces, in particular, were messed up on first run after using the new quick account setup, and that could account for the weirdness Myk saw.
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