User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:2.0b8pre) Gecko/20101024 Firefox/4.0b8pre Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:2.0b8pre) Gecko/20101024 Firefox/4.0b8pre As I mentioned in bug 582485: --- Holding down or right-clicking is not properly discoverable... I could understand if the menu was just a time-saving feature, but what happens when an inexperienced user needs to go back two pages to skip a page with postdata or a poorly-done redirect[*]? They'll likely give up and be very frustrated. --- Either the change needs to be reverted**, or the other methods of accessing the menu need to be made more apparent. Perhaps a tooltip, as suggested by Charles Caygill? * I'd object to this change far less if bug 496232 and whatever it's probably a duplicate of were fixed first. ** Are a few horizontal pixels really that important, especially with the increasing popularity of widescreen displays? I've got a 1024x768 laptop, and I don't feel the change is worth it even on that. Reproducible: Always

I agree that this is a big loss. Confirming as this is a valid request (this doesn't mean this will be reimplemented; I'm not a Firefox developer). /me dislikes these comments à la "IE and Chrome do it, so let's do it too [foo-parity]".

I believe it’s possible to make the new behaviour more discoverable without bringing back clutter. This is my proposal: 1. Reduce the hold time significantly to the duration of an average click. 2. Shift the list of pages up or down so that the previous or next entry, respectively, appears directly beneath the cursor. The consequences of these changes are such that, when one is clicking quickly, no menu gets in the way, since most clicks will not be long enough to trigger this menu. However, even the slightest delay in releasing the mouse button will show the Back/Forward list. Thus, most people will quickly discover that all they need to do is hold the Back or Forward buttons for a very small amount of time. Finally, if you accidentally bring up the menu and then release the mouse button, you will still go Back (or Forward) one page, since the menu has been shifted vertically to make sure that that page’s entry is directly beneath the cursor. Thoughts?

I still don't think that having to press the button long enough to get the menu is discoverable at all, independently of the delay. Give me the name of a single application which behaves like this, i.e. where the time a button is pressed gives different results? This is counter-intuitive.

This is intentional and part of the design. If we want other bugs on changing the long-click delay, file other bugs please :)

(In reply to comment #5) > This is intentional and part of the design. If we want other bugs on changing > the long-click delay, file other bugs please :) The bug report doesn't suggest it is not part of the design. It is basically asking for a more use friendly one. Can this please be revisited after firefox 4.0 is released when the version after that is being designed? Thank you in advance.

i know its not a but, as i explained, this is the only way to get thru to u people!! there is no other way to get any answers from u designers inless i go thru the bug complaint area, so again, could u please put the small arrow that use to be next to the back button, back where it was??? so i dont have to click many times to go 'back' to earlier pages that i need to go back to, with the arrow next to the back button i can just click on it and choose where i need to go back to from the menu that pops up, making it MUCH EASIER to use/operate!!!?? the way that u have changed it to makes it harder to work with, not easier!!?? please change it back to the way it was???? thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bug 619930 will make the other ways of accessing the menu more discoverable.

(In reply to comment #8) > i know its not a but, as i explained, this is the only way to get thru to u > people!! there is no other way to get any answers from u designers inless i go > thru the bug complaint area, so again, could u please put the small arrow that > use to be next to the back button, back where it was??? so i dont have to click > many times to go 'back' to earlier pages that i need to go back to, with the > arrow next to the back button i can just click on it and choose where i need to > go back to from the menu that pops up, making it MUCH EASIER to > use/operate!!!?? the way that u have changed it to makes it harder to work > with, not easier!!?? please change it back to the way it was???? > thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A quick search of addons.mozilla.org led me to this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/backforward-dropmarker/ One of the great things about Firefox is that it is extremely customizable through add-ons, so if there is a feature you want that doesn't ship with the browser, you can usually find an add-on for it.

the arrow that is beside the forward button is the one i was looking for, u switched the forward and back buttons around, but the arrow next to the forward button works as tho it was the back button, didnt u know that, i finally clicked on the arrow next to the forward button to see where it took me and low and behold its the arrow that was next to the back button, only now its beside the forward button becuz u switched the back and forward buttons around/changed places!! All taken care of, thanks for not figuring this out for me!! i figured it out myself!!!

So this has been marked as "Wontfix" by the developers with no comments as to why. So much for user centered design. Honestly FF is becoming as obtuse and unfriendly as IE. Given that FF4 has removed most of what mad FF my favorite browser (easy access to history via back button, link to rss feeds in address bar and more) I'm rolling back to 3.6 for now but it looks like it's time to find a new browser.

The reasoning is in comment 5. Firefox can't satisfy single requests of each of its 450 millions users, so decisions are based on what is better for most of them, extensions exist for the remaining part. This never changed, so I don't see reasons to complain now on how the project always worked.

I've never seen someone more incorrect, Bonardo. You see, Firefox DID change. You made a substantive and unintuitive change to the very design of the browser itself, for no apparent reason. Now, your users are upset and confused (as evidenced by the large amount of feedback this issue has been receiving) and yet you stubbornly insist on doing nothing. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it, and unfortunately Mozilla developers, you just broke something that was already fixed. And as your customers, we have every right to tell you about that. We are your feedback-givers-- it's our job, actually.

Still you're bringing your feedback in the wrong place, a resolved bug. Bug 647886 and bug 619930 are good examples of constructive feedback, as well as discussion threads in mozilla.dev.usability newsgroup. An extension already exists as reported in comment 10, so there is nothing more to say in this resolved bug.

The button feature was incorrectly removed via a bug sheet. Designed and working functionality is not a bug. This is the development error, pure and simple. Requesting that the functionality be restored via the same mechanism (bug sheet) that removed it, is now the best way to deal with the software development breakdown. Bonardo, that I can open my car door by rolling down the window and using the outside latch, does not mean this is the most desired manner of use...yes it achieves the same result as using the inside latch...but that is not the point. You are requiring users to use the program in a different way than designed. The original design was never a bug. Bugs are for designed features that do no behave to specification, the removal of the button never fit that criteria. If the button is put back as an option, or standard feature, how is there any harm? Certainly it not a case of overhead to continue to maintain the functionality. I give you this constructive feedback again, but no matter how you dress up a mistake, it does not make it a feature. Comment 10 is not a solution, it also does not function properly. When developer advocate that a kludged solution is in the interests of the design goals....its time for that developer to take a step back and take some stock. Standardization within a program it not a meaningless goal. The bugsheet that removed the functionality is error, Firefox 4 broke that functionality....the bugsheets here should suffice to replace it, and hopefully programmers will complete work in isolation of the user community.

Morphing into a tracking bug (which is actually all it was intended to be). Please do not close until all blockers are resolved.