Closed Bug 841598 (tb-ab-rewrite) Opened 11 years ago Closed 3 years ago

[meta] A new Thunderbird address book

Categories

(Thunderbird :: Address Book, enhancement, P2)

Product:
Thunderbird
Component:
Address Book
Type:
enhancement

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WORKSFORME

People

(Reporter: mconley, Unassigned)

References

(Depends on 2 open bugs, Blocks 2 open bugs)

Details

(Keywords: meta) 

This is the metabug for the address book work I'm doing.
Summary: Ensemble [meta] → Ensemble - an effort to rebuild the Thunderbird address book [meta]
Depends on: 457296
Summary: Ensemble - an effort to rebuild the Thunderbird address book [meta] → A new Thunderbird address book [meta]
Depends on: 841603
Will the addressbook be TB only, or will it live in /mailnews for Seamonkey consumption?
Assignee: nobody → mconley
Severity: normal → enhancement
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Hardware: x86_64 → All
(In reply to :aceman from comment #2)
> Will the addressbook be TB only, or will it live in /mailnews for Seamonkey
> consumption?

Some of my changes will have to be in /mailnews (the shim in bug 841603, for example, will have to sit between any non-AB code that is interested in contacts and the AB implementation).

My plan is to implement this in TB, and iterate in TB on my add-on. Once that has stabilized, more or less, I guess I'll point the SM folks at it and see if they're interested.

And if they are, well, I'll try to get it into both.
I do not know is this is the place to mention two highly important additions to the address book of TB.

they will be
1>be able to search all address with only one request.
2>have a master address list, were the emails will be fully document, and all other list will only contain a link to the master, so a change on master list ( like e-mail address for example) will be immediately applied to all other list.

thanks a lot for your attention either registering this request or forwarding them to the right place on the forum

thanks in advance

juabba
(In reply to juan jose abba from comment #4)

Hi Juabba
regarding you 2nd request:
 
> 2>have a master address list, were the emails will be fully document, and
> all other list will only contain a link to the master, so a change on master
> list ( like e-mail address for example) will be immediately applied to all
> other list.
 

To my knowledge, the new AB will not have "lists" or "categories" but utilize "tags".
Hence, there won't be any duplication but only "lists of tags" with links to the one source.
So your request should be covered.

Also look at
- the FAQ https://github.com/mikeconley/thunderbird-ensemble/wiki/FAQ
- the Roadmap https://github.com/mikeconley/thunderbird-ensemble/wiki/Roadmap-and-Milestones
(In reply to juan jose abba from comment #4)

BTW, as in the links of my answer (comment #5), you see that different AB's should be handled through tags as well.
Hence, this should also answer you request 1>
Rolf
Thanks a lot for your answer, it made my day.
Will totally cover my needs ,

Understand it will be released this year

beautiful

best regards
juan
Juan,
   Where did you see a timeline stating a year?  I think a lot of people have been waiting on an updated addressbook for a very long time and this looks extremely promising; however, I don't see anywhere where it states a year or anytimeframe at all for that matter.
   I see the roadmap section which states that they've reach 0.1 as of Sept 2012. And I've been watching the commits on this (https://github.com/mikeconley/thunderbird-ensemble/network), and with that in mind I'm not sure I see this being done inside of a year while looking at the rest of the roadmap unless a lot more developers throw some help in.
   With that said, I've put an issue in asking for some more guidance and documentation in hacking this so that other developers may have an easier time in getting the code up and running and helping out.
Hi Stephen

The release for this year is my OWN understanding from o note I read somewhere else stating that they release updates every year.

Sorry if I gave the wrong idea, I also did not found any date commitment.

regards
juan
Juan,
   Did you mean you saw that Thunderbird releases every year, or that the NEW plugin Ensemble releases every year?  The latter is not yet associated with the former. Currently it's just a planned plugin, you'll see that 1.1 would be to start planning to be merged into the core (meaning thunderbird).  However, even that I think may be difficult as Mozilla has said they will no longer be developing Thunderbird except for bugs and security releases. I'm thinking this may remain a plugin.
Stephen
Your guess is right, I saw that Thunderbird releases every year and I associated that with this subject, inadvertently making a wrong assumption

sorry about that

juan
Hey all,

Thanks for your interest in Ensemble and the new address book.

Development on Ensemble is occurring, albeit very slowly. I do this in my free time, which as of late, has been very sparse.

I have a GSoC student working with me on the project at the moment, and he's working on a CardDAV connector for it. So there *is* forward progress.

But the progress is slow - very slow, and I just haven't had time to write up hacking documentation or anything like that.

The end-goal of all of this is to integrate it into Thunderbird. The original intent of developing it as an add-on was to speed development and to quickly iterate on design. That obviously hasn't happened as I had originally hoped - but I imagine my progress wouldn't be any better if I was starting in core.

So I guess my response to all of your inquiries is:

Progress is slow, but is being made in my free time and with the GSoC student. I will hopefully put some hacking documentation together in the relatively near future once I get a little bit of time.

There is no slated release date. It's ready when it's ready.

-Mike
Mike,
  Thanks for the response. Like I said earlier, I've been following along on github and watching some progress which is extremely exciting. Completely understand that this will take some time.
  Thanks for trying anything as this is long overdue for Thunderbird.
(In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) from comment #12)
(Upfront: Sorry for posting / blogging here in bugzilla. However, it is where the music plays.)

Hi Mike
This project covers one of the most wanted features for Thunderbird.
Since I am not able to help in programming (skills / time), I wondered if there are other means of supporting the project.
My thoughts go in the direction of a crowdfunding project (eg. kickstarter project).
I am sure there are many people willing to donate for such a solution.

-Rolf
Yes, we already have some crowdfunding offers, e.g. here: http://www.freedomsponsors.org/core/issue/?s=&project_id=&project_name=thunderbird .
Blocks: 29106
Any progress worth mentioning?
(In reply to erik from comment #16)
> Any progress worth mentioning?

I'm afraid if there was any, I'd have posted it. :/
Keywords: meta
(In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) - Needinfo me! from comment #17)
> (In reply to erik from comment #16)
> > Any progress worth mentioning?
> 
> I'm afraid if there was any, I'd have posted it. :/

Still no progress?

Thanks.
I am really eager, too!
Is there anything we can do to help?

Thanks!
(In reply to Karl from comment #18)
> (In reply to Mike Conley (:mconley) - Needinfo me! from comment #17)
> > (In reply to erik from comment #16)
> > > Any progress worth mentioning?
> > 
> > I'm afraid if there was any, I'd have posted it. :/
> 
> Still no progress?

I'm afraid not.

(In reply to bugzilla.andy from comment #19)
> I am really eager, too!
> Is there anything we can do to help?
> 

If you can find a developer with the cycles to drive this project, that'd be absolutely huge. Unfortunately, I am not that person at this time. :/
As I think that there are many people and companies interested, maybe some creates a bounty for it?
https://www.bountysource.com/
(In reply to juan jose abba from comment #4)
> I do not know is this is the place to mention two highly important additions
> to the address book of TB.
> 
> they will be
> 1>be able to search all address with only one request.

This was already implemented in the old AB, so you will get it in TB38 soon.
@mconley for #12

With the changed landscape to deprecate XUL/XCOMP with future releases of Mozilla based products is it realistic to proceed with the current status of new AB? 
Is there a "good" overview about what the plan was/is and what has been finished already?
Remember you spoke about using an db approach, was is finished ...
Could we have news from the idea of a new modern address book in Thunderbird that would support CardDav (and other protocol I heard, LDAP Facebook...)?
Using Thunderbird on my laptop, cozycloud on the net and Firefox OS on my pocket computer, it's Thunderbird who frustrate me much when it comes to contacts management.

Problem :  as all of us I'm sure, I care about my contacts. They are precious! Without them, Thunderbird and all the rest are useless.
I'm dreaming of a new address book that would manage them as smoothly, efficiently and respectfully (I had two bad experience of corrupted address Book) as they deserve.
If it could be modernly design, that would be even better but it's not the main point (I guess users are used to the retro design of their address book :-).
Hey all, sorry I was away for a bit.

I'm not currently working on a new address book for Thunderbird. I know it's a thing that many (including myself) dearly want, but I just don't have the cycles right now to do the work. Again, if somebody is willing to drive the project, I'm happy to consult.
(In reply to Rolf Gloor from comment #5)
> To my knowledge, the new AB will not have "lists" or "categories" but
> utilize "tags".

(In reply to Mike Conley from comment #25)
> I'm not currently working on a new address book for Thunderbird.
> […] I just don't have the cycles right now to do the work.
> If somebody is willing to drive the project, I'm happy to consult.

To Mike Conley or whoever might take over the project:

https://github.com/mikeconley/thunderbird-ensemble/wiki/FAQ says:
"But what about if we wanted to Keep our address book in folders like : Clients, Vendors, Hotels, Resorts, Production Houses, Event Managers, Casting Directors etc. etc. ?
This is what the tags are for. You tag the contacts into those partitions, and then you can view the contacts for each particular tag."

Tags are really nice, but please don't take away AB folders from Thunderbird users. There is a reason why Outlook has both tags and folders. Some user scenarios require both.

And I don't see any reason for taking them away.
Flags: needinfo?(mconley)
I'm no longer actively working on re-writing the Thunderbird address book at this time, so clearing this needinfo.
Flags: needinfo?(mconley)
Depends on: vContacts
Blocks: 366457
maybe some might be interested by this very perfectible addon : https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/cardbook/
Hi Philippe,

Thanks for your work, I'll take a look when I have time, but...

Even better... maybe you would be willing to work on this bug, and get your code integrated into the core Mozilla code and replace the Address Book fully?

That would be awesome, if it is workable!

Thanks again!
Hi Charles

for the moment, I think that CardBook is not mature enough to be integrated into Thunderbird, but this is what I hope for the future ! :O)

Philippe
cross-referencing the suggestions to add
* business card view (bug#1226155)
* photo gallery view (bug#1456645)
* and several "group by sort" views (bug#405959)

all as part of an effort to catch up with Outlook's superb contact viewing capabilities (attachment#8970721 [details]).

Going to use this for tracking the address book rewrite.

Assignee: mconley → nobody
Status: ASSIGNED → NEW
Depends on: 1572324
Priority: -- → P3
Summary: A new Thunderbird address book [meta] → [meta] A new Thunderbird address book
Alias: ensemble → tb-ab-rewrite
URL: https://github.com/mikeconley/thunder...

From bug 413260, some of which implemented, https://wiki.mozilla.org/MailNews:Address_Book_Interface_Redesign.
That bug also has dependencies which may be worth looking at.

Priority: P3 → P2
Depends on: 1590237
Blocks: 328199, 184483
Depends on: 1456645

(In reply to u350923 from comment #34)

fyi & fwiw

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1372580#c25

Unfortunately, u350923 won't see this, but I write this for others who may be thinking "Um, he has a point..." because I have seen this behaviour and way of thinking just too many times in too many projects and I used to think this way until I started contributing to an open source project and getting unreasonable demands from users.

TL;DR: Dropping a solution designed by an external agent into an already established organisation and demanding that they accept it almost never works. Nor in open-source projects nor in any other kind of mostly self-organised group of humans.

There are various reasons for the above:

  • The external agent is not aware of internal constraints and priorities.
  • Integrating the solution often requires additional work or a refocus of priorities from the organisation. It is almost never free and often very costly from the point of view of the organisation.
  • External solutions are inherently risky: The external agent may disappear after integrating the solution (their job is done!) and not take ownership of any fallout, it may refuse to adapt to the constraints or priorities of the organisation, the organisation has little experience or knowledge about the external solution and no resources to acquire it (otherwise they would have done it themselves), accepting the external solution may actually lead to losing internal members or resources (already integrated solutions or ongoing work) who did not agree with the external solution. Those members are precious since they are not external and often provide more benefits than what the external solution can give.

I'm not say that the above is what should happen. I'm saying that it is what happens in practice. But there are ways to avoid the conflict.

How to avoid such a situation?

  • Never develop complex solutions as external projects to an organisation unless you are closely following the constraints and priorities of the organisation so that the solution can be integrated without friction. The most famous example of this approach is the EGCS fork (http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/history_of_gcc_development.shtml). When EGCS was forked from GCC, the fork maintained rigorously coding style and copyright assignment to FSF so that an eventual merge would be easier. If they had decided to completely revolutionise the code base, the fork will have failed to become the main GCC.
  • Propose to integrate very small bits and pieces one at a time. This makes adoption easier but requires substantial effort from the external agent.
  • The external agent can become a full member of the internal organisation and, only after that, propose to integrate their solution. Every time you see a big change in an open-source project is because it was proposed and supported by active internal members. Why was Lightning so easily integrated into Thunderbird? Why this doesn't happen with other add-ons? Because the maintainer of Lightning is a core member of Thunderbird.

I hope the above clarifies that the current situation has nothing to do with "listening to users & contributors" and all to do with external vs. internal dynamics of human organisations.

I am reading all this comments because I am looking for the same solution for the Thunderbird Address Book with the CardDAV server in the company here.

But do not understand the comment from M Lopez Ibanez that is about "unreasonable demands from users" and "demanding that they accept it almost never works".

I read also the comments of u350923. What are the demands there? I do not see any demanding? What is the unreasonable part?

I do not understand what is the decision for the Project? Will there be new Address Book any time soon? Or just ignoring the projects from "external" but still no solution on the "internal"?

Depends on: 1658261

I think this meta bug can be closed. We've done a lot in the backend, and the new front-end is tracked in bug 1705276 which has also landed on trunk. Clearly still things to do, but not tracking it in this bug.

Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 3 years ago
Resolution: --- → WORKSFORME

Little Question. Because I face some Problems with syncing all my Thunderbird profiles. Would it be possible in this new Address book to store the PublicPGP key per Contact like Cardbook allows doing so?

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