Ben Basson Reporter
	Description • 19 years ago

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8b2) Gecko/20050701 Firefox/1.0+
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8b2) Gecko/20050701 Firefox/1.0+

The "Automatic Update" options dialog is essentially unusable.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
Open the following dialog - Tools > Options... > Advanced > Update > Advanced...
Actual Results:  
This is barely readable. As a power-user and software developer, I had
difficulty with the wording. In my opinion, this dialog needs to be re-done
entirely. 

Expected Results:  
Recommended improvements:

1. "Automatically download" should be entirely seperate to "Automatically
install". Downloading in the background and manually installing when ready is
more desirable than not downloading automatically with idle bandwidth. There is
potential for confusion here

2. Word the dialog better as below:

When updates are available, Firefox should:
(o) download updates and install.
( ) download updates but not install.
( ) prompt for instructions.

Install updates only if:
[ ] enabled extensions remain compatible
[ ] the current theme remains compatible

This will obviously affect localisation. Please nominate as an appropriate blocker.

	Ben Basson Reporter
	Comment 1 • 19 years ago

If downloading and installation remain part of the same process, this could be
further simplified to:

When updates are available, Firefox should:
(o) download updates and install
    [ ] if installed extensions and themes will still work
( ) prompt for instructions

The prompt would then inform the user about the extension/theme situation rather
than respecting the pref, since this only needs to be decided in advance if it's
an automatic process.

	Chris Cunningham
	Comment 2 • 19 years ago

That dialogue box is an abomination - that's absolutely the smallest text I've
ever seen used in a software package in my life. Instant entry to the Hall of
Shame is guaranteed, assuming anyone can actually find it (hidden behind not one
but *two* Advanced labels).

I don't see why there is UI for disabling incremental security downloads, or UI
to ask for only security updates (if the download is done in the background it
shouldn't make any difference, and new point versions will contain the
appropriate security fixes anyway). The only people who wouldn't want to be
doing that have upstreams with their own update mechanisms who can disable this
outside of the Options panel.

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|General|Update|Security|                                       |
|-------|      |------------------------------------------------|
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
| [x] Check for updates while I'm not busy                      |
| [x] Warn me if updates will disable my Themes or Extensions   |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
| [Check Now] [Show Update History]                             |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|

"Warn me" can be accompanied by a "stop bugging me" tickbox in the warning dialogue.

 - Chris

	Ben Basson Reporter
	Comment 3 • 19 years ago

Nominating 1.8b4/1.1b since I've been told that the localisation freeze will
occur then. Please re-nominate for a more appropriate target if that isn't the case.

	Ben Basson Reporter
	Comment 4 • 19 years ago

The whole update system has dialogs like this. Check out the Incompatible
Extension dialog, nobody is going to read all of this stuff:
http://www.cusser.net/misc/firefox/incompatible.png

	Asa Dotzler [:asa]
	Comment 5 • 19 years ago

Mike, can you take a look at this and see if it's something we need to change?
If so, it needs to block our 1.8b4 release. 

	Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]
	Comment 6 • 19 years ago

Asa: Yes, this should block, as Software Update is a marquee feature for the FFx
1.5 release.

Ben B. and Chris' comments are spot on. I think what we want to do is give the
users ..:
  - a choice of what updates (if any) FFx should be looking for
  - a simple choice of what to do once those updates are found

Borrowing ideas from both Chris and Ben B., I came up with this (with proposed
default settings shown):

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|General|Update|Security|                                       |
|-------|      |------------------------------------------------|
|                                                               |
| Periodically check to see if there are updates for            |
|   [x] Firefox                                                 |
|   [x] My extensions                                           |
|   [x] My themes                                               |
|                                                               |
| When updates are found,                                       |
|   ( ) Always ask me what I want to do                         |
|   (o) Automatically download and install the update           |
|        [x] But warn me if the update will disable             |
|            my extensions or themes                            |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
| [Check Now] [Show Update History]                             |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|

Where both "Ask me .." and "Warn me .." end up showing the "Update Available"
dialog (with options for "Later" and "Download & Install", and the appropriate
warnings about extensions / themes) which is shown if a user manually selects
"Check for updates" from the Help menu or the [Check Now] button.

	Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email) Assignee
	Comment 7 • 19 years ago

Mike, it may be possible to do a variant of this for the app only (since
extensions are currently not auto-updated). Also I don't see that much point to
separating extensions from themes. 

	Ben Basson Reporter
	Comment 8 • 19 years ago

Perhaps something like this, then?

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|General|Update|Security|                                       |
|-------|      |------------------------------------------------|
|                                                               |
| Automatically check to see if there are updates for           |
|   [x] Firefox                                                 |
|   [x] My extensions & themes                                  |
|                                                               |
| When Firefox updates are found,                               |
|   ( ) Ask me what I want to do                                |
|   (o) Automatically download and install the update           |
|        [x] Warn me if this will disable extensions or themes  |              
             
|                                                               |
| [Check Now] [Show Update History]                             |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|

Changes and reasons:

1. "Periodically" to "Automatically"

   It's an automatic process and I think it makes the fact more
   prominent to anyone who's likely to care about disabling this.

2. Extensions and themes wrapped into one. 

   Changed per Ben's comment.

3. "When updates are found" to "When Firefox updates are found".

   To differentiate from extension or theme updates.

4. Removed "Always" from "Always ask me".

   I think it's redundant when coupled with "When Firefox updates are found", 
   since the wording indicates that for every Firefox update found, the chosen 
   action will be taken.

5. Removed "But" and changed "the update" to "this".

   Removing "But" is just my preference on the grammar used.
   "the update" seems redundant when the section is titled "Update" and the
   pref is split from something directly referencing the fact.

I don't know if this is particularly useful, but it's my take on how to improve
the dialog in comment 6 just slightly.

	Grey Nicholson (they/them)
	Comment 9 • 19 years ago

(In reply to comment #8)
> | Automatically check to see if there are updates for           |
> |   [x] Firefox                                                 |
> |   [x] My extensions & themes                                  |
> |                                                               |
> | When Firefox updates are found,                               |

I suggest "When updates for Firefox are found", to mirror "Automatically check
to see if there are updates for Firefox".

I'd prefer "Installed extensions & themes" because: it's more impersonal so
sounds less like Firefox is talking about itself in the first person; and more
importantly, global extensions are also checked for updates.

Also, perhaps consider "to" instead of "for" in all cases.

	Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]
	Comment 10 • 19 years ago

Ben, Ben and Greg: good comments, all, and thanks for correcting my less than
accurate assumptions about what was auto-updatable :) I'd played with using
"Installed" before, but thought it might look too heavy. When I saw it come up
again I realized that my hatred of "My [whatever]" trumps it. Consolidating, we
end up with:

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|General|Update|Security|                                       |
|-------|      |------------------------------------------------|
|                                                               |
| Automatically check to see if there are updates to            |
|   [x] Firefox                                                 |
|   [x] Installed extensions & themes                           |
|                                                               |
| When updates to Firefox are found,                            |
|   ( ) Ask me what I want to do                                |
|   (o) Automatically download and install the update           |
|        [x] Warn me if this will disable extensions or themes  |              
|                                                               |
| [Check Now] [Show Update History]                             |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|

	Grey Nicholson (they/them)
	Comment 11 • 19 years ago

(In reply to comment #10)

One more: :)

> | Automatically check to see if there are updates to            |

Now the final conjunction is "to", "for" can be used earlier in the sentence,
between "check" and "updates":

"Automatically check for updates to"

	Ben Basson Reporter
	Comment 12 • 19 years ago

Do we need a new bug for the dialog referenced in comment 4 or can we handle
that here, too?

	Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email) Assignee
	Comment 13 • 19 years ago

An additional note:

Mike, when we further improve the extension update capability we can make the
wording be more like your original version ("When updates are found..."). 

	Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]
	Comment 14 • 19 years ago

Ben clarified in IRC that presently the "Check now" behaviour is limited to app
OR extension/theme updates, and the UI for each is seperate. As such, there will
need to be two "Check now" buttons, each cleanly associated with the respective
option:

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|General|Update|Security|                                       |
|-------|      |------------------------------------------------|
|                                                               |
| Automatically check for updates to                            |
|   [x] Firefox                         [ Check now ]           |
|   [x] Installed extensions & themes   [ Check now ]           |
|                                                               |
| When updates to Firefox are found,                            |
|   ( ) Ask me what I want to do                                |
|   (o) Automatically download and install the update           |
|        [x] Warn me if this will disable extensions or themes  |              
|                                                               |
| [Show Update History]                                         |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|

	Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email) Assignee
	Comment 15 • 19 years ago

Implements the latest UI proposal from Mike.

	Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email) Assignee
	Comment 16 • 19 years ago

landed

	Steffen Wilberg
	Comment 17 • 19 years ago

advanced.dtd wasn't checked in, resulting in an xml parsing error. Reopening.

	Ben Goodger (use ben at mozilla dot org for email) Assignee
	Comment 18 • 19 years ago

oops. landed!

	Steve England [:stevee]
	Comment 19 • 19 years ago

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8b4) Gecko/20050802
Firefox/1.0+ ID:2005080210

With the latest Pacifica trunk build (after the 2nd landing of the forgotten
file), this still fails for me.

	Patrick
	Comment 20 • 19 years ago

(In reply to comment #19)
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8b4) Gecko/20050802
> Firefox/1.0+ ID:2005080210
> 
> With the latest Pacifica trunk build (after the 2nd landing of the forgotten
> file), this still fails for me.

are you sure that your build was actually based on the source that included the
2nd landing? Compilation takes a bit of time. Can you try again with a build
from tomorrow?

	Jim Jeffery not reading bug-mail 1/2/11
	Comment 21 • 19 years ago

confirmed, just downloaded the latest hourly that 'should' contain the fix, and
its still broken. 

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8b4) Gecko/20050802
Firefox/1.0+ ID:2005080210

	Patrick
	Comment 22 • 19 years ago

According to
http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/preferences/advanced.dtd
advanced.dtd was checked in at 2005-08-02 10:17

Now if i read your user agents strings from comment 19 and comment 21 correctly
both of you are using "2005080210" which means, if i'm not mistaken that the
build  STARTED at 2005-08-02 at 10 am, which would make it BEFORE the check in.

Can someone correct me if i'm wrong on that?

	Jim Jeffery not reading bug-mail 1/2/11
	Comment 23 • 19 years ago

According to the 'tinderbox' times: 
ben checked in the fix at 10:12 PDT
Build started at:  10:18
Finished at:       10:46

So, it should be there....Unless clocks are off..which is highly possible.

	Stebs
	Comment 24 • 19 years ago

This is WFM now with:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8b4) Gecko/20050802
Firefox/1.0+ ID:2005080211
But I must admit that there seemed to be an Tinderbox Bug, when you click on "C"
of the 200508210 Build, the fix should have been in...
Well anyway, working now...

	Shayne Jewers
	Comment 25 • 19 years ago

WFM now too Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8b4)
Gecko/20050802 Firefox/1.0+ ID:2005080211

	José Jeria
	Comment 26 • 19 years ago

Just saw this new Update content. Much better! Cleaner on simpler. Nice.

	Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]
	Comment 27 • 19 years ago

Adding dependency on a follow-up bug 303152
Adding to 1.8 branch blocker bug 300860