6/8 build --> Windows XP So er, am I the only one who sees the profile manager disappearing at random times, too early, and then the app not starting? I can reproduce it often but it's difficult to describe the symptons. Basically, when I press try to delete my main profile, or create a new profile, or when I press Next in the Profile Wizard after I've deleted my other profiles and I'm trying to create a fresh one, the profile manager just closes. Or, if the 4.x Conversion window/dialog/thing comes up when I try to start Mozilla, it just goes away immediately when I press a button. When I finally do get Mozilla to start somehow, through some combination of black magic and fortune, it crashes the first time (can't get a stack yet). When I start again it runs fine. I've been seeing this for a few days, and it's just about this most annoying bug on earth. If no one else sees this, Paul, can you test on Windows XP (which is what I'm using)?

On winxp, I am not seeing this. Or at least, not seeing the application just "disappear", or crash on startup. I did find that creating a profile in other than the default location, led to a hang on exit (bug 84999). It's also a long-standing bug (bug 65974) that on Win NT (and derivatives win2k and WinME [a.k.a. NT5.0 and NT5.1]), that dialogs, notably the profile manager, are not coming to the front and/or dropping to the back at the wrong time. [This doesn't happen to be part of what you are seeing, does it?].

hmm.. this particular bug (something similar) has been reported by several WinXP users, but remains elusive to reproduce. This was last seen on WinXP RC2 build (the build before the latest build 2535). The steps appear to be: 1. Install 6.1 (or Mozilla) 2. Start application (click on desktop icon) 3. Either nothing will come up or you will see the splash screen and then nothing else. 4. Start application again (click on desktop icon) 5. Application starts.

Within Netscape, Rob Jaworski has this problem. We can't reproduce elsewhere so far. Need to look at Rob's system for clues.

I just now installed 6.1 on RC2, and yes i had to launch the app twice. 1) after installation, it went to activation, made it through to screenname login 2) after that nothing happens - app closed. 3) re-launched 4) went through activation all over again 5) worked - browser starts 6.1 rtm build on Win XP RC2

When I was using Windows XP RC1 for my main system, I had to end our product with the task manager if I had opened a mail with attachments. I verified this was a problem with the RC1 build but not the RC2 build. Before I found this out, I would frequently fail a launching 6.1 after exiting. It would just flash the flash screen then disappear. Using RC2 for my daily use, I don't have to do this anymore. I am having problems with the builds after 8-10 where I get an error that it can't start a Browser instance (which is 93889) maybe this has something to do with current problems and the RC1 build had something to do with the earlier reported problems.

WIN build 2001-07-27-00-0.9.2. I am able to reproduce this problem on WinXP consistently. In a fresh installation on a newly installed XP, you need to click on the desktop icon twice to invoke N6.1 since there is only one default profile: no Profile Manager UI will be seen. If I run Profile Manager to create another profile, said "tao", then, after a fresh installation (in a different folder from the 1st one), the Profile Manager shows up, after selecting my profile, the ProfileManager UI goes away but N6.1 die right after that, too. I am able to reproduce this on two different XP. Don't remember if seeing it on win2000, too.

Has anyone turn on PR log to see if there is any clue?

> In a fresh installation on a newly installed XP, you need to click on the > desktop icon twice to invoke N6.1 Does the first instance die? Why twice? > If I run Profile Manager to create another profile In this case, does the profile end up getting made? If so and you start again and choose that profile, what happens?

>> In a fresh installation on a newly installed XP, you need to click on the >> desktop icon twice to invoke N6.1 > >Does the first instance die? Why twice? To find out what happen, there is an XP machine here. You're welcome to see it yourself. > If I run Profile Manager to create another profile > In this case, does the profile end up getting made? Yes. Note that this profile is created via the ProfileManager from the 1st installation. > If so and you start again and choose that profile, what happens? N6.1 runs gracefully starting from the 2nd launch.

Just so it's recorded, here's what I'm seeing and doing to make this 100% reproducible: On a fresh install of XP (build 2526), I installed RTM 6.1. Try to run it, I see the problem. To reproduce it on the same system... - Add/Remove Programs, and remove N6.1 - Remove the directory \Program Files\Netscape\Netscape 6 - Remove the directory \Documents and Settings\[current.user]\Application Data\Mozilla - Log out - Log back in - Reinstall N6.1 - Run N6.1 and see the problem I've also occasionally run into error messages if I don't reboot or logout/log back in at all; the only way I know how to get the actual error is to not logout or reboot, do all the above steps in the same windows session. I'll attach a screenshot of the error next.

> there is an XP machine here. You're welcome to see it yourself. I'm in New York. I'll be in Mtn View next week though.

>I've also occasionally run into error messages if I don't reboot or logout/log >back in at all; the only way I know how to get the actual error is to not logout >or reboot, do all the above steps in the same windows session. I'll attach a >screenshot of the error next. It does not have to do with "turbo" mode, does it?

conrad - I can get the name of a contact at Microsoft's Application Compatibility lab. I'll try to start there and see if they can also help isolate.

I wonder if we can install a debug build on one of these WinXP machines and see where it dies on launch.

That was my next question: Do we have a debug build and a debugger on this machine so we can tell something?

I don't have a debugger on my machine. tao, how about you? Rumor has it that this is most apparent on XP, but has been seen on earlier flavors of win32. ccarlen, do you have XP installed on a machine there in NY? If not, is this issue on hold til next week when you get to Mt View? Is there someone else in your group that can help out? We've got at least two machines here in Mt View that demonstrate this, and I can donate mine temporarily for this effort.

I have win2000 debugger build but not xp's.

Marlon - since you reported seeing this problem, do you have a debugger on your XP machine?

Is the debugger for WinXP the same as the other Windows platforms? If yes, Tao, can you install VC++ on the XP machine?

It has been said that this happens *every* time you launch (launch, fail, launch succeed, repeat for next attempt.) However, the comments in the bug aren't clear on that point. It seems like these comments all say this only happens in the first OS login where the install was done. Is logging out/rebooting really a workaround?

I have seen this *only* the *first* time you attempt to launch after install. After you get past this first round, the app works as expected. The scenario in which I've seen this and I'm most interested is: - install - shutdown/powerdown - powerup - launch the app

lisa - no i don't have a debugger on my machine. I also never noticed the problem thereafter (even rebooting). Only on the first activation did this happen to me.

I have contacted Microsoft's Application Compatibility Lab folks on this for any input they may have.

seth or mscott - I'm wondering if you may have a chance to take a look at this (on the problem machine) since bhuvan is on vacation and ccarlen is not in mt view.

Lisa, Bhuvan is here. He's not on vacation.

CC bhuvan

Jason reports: I think I've found it. After poking at marlons machine for an hour, it looks to be activation causing it. What happens is this: The user launches, or the installer launches, following the install, splash appears, then either a. activation very quickly flashes, then the program dies, or activation will hang around for either the first or second window of the process, then die. I can only ever get this to happen on the first run of the program. --- Note: if activation is involved, this turns out to be a different bug than the one Blake originally reported.

this sounds like it. It may not be activation, but the profile manager just quitting randomly sounds much like what I'm seeing. I'm getting a debug build now to see if I can reproduce it that way. I'm wondering if it has to be installed or not, which i'm not sure i can do in a debug build.

I might be able to help you make a installer build. I'll come by.

On XP, right after installation, if there are more than 1 profile existing, I will get the ProfileManager UI. Clicking on any button such as "Manage Profiles" will cause the ProfileManager UI to go away. Therefore, I think it dies before reaching Activation which kicks in after profile selection. One thing to look at is whether chrome urls are resolved properly. I also noticed that the [install-dir]/chrome/user-locales.rdf changed in the second launch. CC hyatt.

For what it worths, I had attached the user-locales.rdf and a sequence of chrome urls conversion before ProfileManager UI shows up.

more info: 1. I needed to remove N6.1 installation via control panel to reproduce the problem 2. In one occasion, N6.1 dies even before ProfileManager shows up.

So it sounds like we're dying the first time any type of interaction occurs with the actual browser. I couldn't get a debug build onto my winxp machine tonight, so i'll get it on there tomorrow. I still don't know why sometimes the window will load, and sometimes it won't. On marlons machine, i could actually use activation before it dies, but in most cases, any type of interaction kills it. More to play with tomorrow.

Fixing database corruption caused by bug 95743. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

With a NS dbg build, the program crashed in FULLSOFT.DLL: "unhandled exception in netscp6.exe (FULLSOFT.DLL 0xC0000005) Access violation" Has anyone ever been able to run talkback on XP?

cc'd gbush Grace, have you ever been able to run Talkback on XP?

cc: shiva and team. Do you know if we have any XP specific data in talkback reports? gbush, ktrina - let's look for a crash bug within bugzilla and follow the steps to crash on XP to see if Talkback comesup. Tao - is the problem you are seeing related to the core problem here (which isn't a crash) or is it something with your debug build?

I tweaked a 6.1rtm build with QFA removed and then installed it on WinXP. I was not able to reproduce this problem anymore. QA can verify this by de-selecting QFA in the Customized Install Type in the Installer UI. thx!

changing component to "talkback"

verified that the builds Tao gave us to test do not exhibit this bug. ( they are blob builds with no talkback) leaving bug open until further investigation is completed

Jason has also confirmed that Talkback appears to be causing the problem on startup.

The build tao spun, sans talkback, worksforme too.

There seems to be a conflict between Talkback Crash Detection Mechanism and Microsoft's Crash Detection Mechanism when they register for the first time and It causes the program to exit. Second time it works fine(I don't know why). But, when the crash happens both mechanisms picks up the crash. I am waiting for the response from support.com.

not sure if this helps - i just added "-turbo", and now the problem has changed. previously the app failed to launch only on the first attempt, after installation. But now after adding "-turbo", the app will only launch every other try. So, if i quit the app, it won't start the next time, but it will the subsequent time.

Marlon - your information is very useful as we've gotten reports also about launching successfully every other time. Shiva - can you see if the -turbo symptoms are also caused by Talkback/interaction with XP?

adding to summary line for easier querying see also bug 99681-

This should not be morphed into a turbo bug; I was not using turbo when I reported it. (Also worth noting that I no longer see this bug in newer versions of XP and Mozilla, with or without turbo, with or without talkback). Marlon, can you retest?

Placing "Turbo+" in Status Whiteboard, and marking nsbranch+ for Trudelle's short list query. Pls remove Turbo+ and nsbranch- if this is no longer on the short list.

I'm minusing this for turbo. There is no way this bug as I reported it was a turbo bug, and it's likely that many of the people who reproduced it initially weren't in turbo mode. Someone please file a separate bug if adverse things still happen when running with turbo in WinXP; I don't see any.

Marking this WinXP+ since this bug looks like it only appears on WinXP from the comments. Can the engineer working on this let us know when this will be fixed? If in the next few days we'd like to get this on the Radar for eMojo. Also, if QA can comment how reproducible this is. Seems that Tao can reproduce this but others rarely see it.

I can reproduce this- just need an installation setup that contains Talkback. That will always occur on Custom setup type with Talkback selected. Note other setup types (Recommended and Full)do not always contain Talkback- only one of 20 I think get Talkback- which is why lots of folks do not see this problem.

adding PDT+, we need this fix for gct

Sorry, I meant PDT for consideration

The summary of this problem is that Talkback does not work with Windows XP. On those 20 percent of recommended installations where we automatically enable Talkback and on those X percent of users who choose Talkback from the Custom install will run into this problem. The problem is that there are times when Profile Manager will not come up or the user will have to launch the application twice. Grace, can you add more symptoms to this? I don't think there is anything we can do on our end unless we get a new Talkback version for WinXP.

pdt mtg - pdt-

No known fix at this time = PDT-. There is a workaround. The user can click twice on the dialogue.

> The summary of this problem is that Talkback does not work with Windows XP. Talkback works with WinXP. If it didn't, I wouldn't have been able to submit a TB report for bug 93683 .

I agree Talkback works on XP, but when Talkback is installed, it does not launch on first attempt. (Depending on users setup on first launch, Profile Manager or Activation (on commercial builds) will appear briefly and disappear) That appears to be only symptom- once launched on second attempt, things proceed as usual.

os to xp.

removing PDt grafitti. is this still an issue?

I haven't received my XP install CDs yet, so I can't test. Can someone run through this and verify using a released, up-to-date xp system and a current build? If the problem still occurs, then yes, this is still a blocker for my needs.

I will check this out this morning- have access to XP machine in lab.

Yes, as far as I know. If I am right, this is the talkback v.s. MSFT crash report agent problem.

I cannot reproduce this today- 4 different installs ( 3 with talkback) using build 2002020803 Windows XP Home Edition (lab 212) Version 2002 Launches on first attempt.

Let's mark it WORKFORME then unless someone else can reproduce it on the RTM version of WINXP.

I am still not convinced that the problem is solved. Since I haven't fixed the talkback crash handler collision or I haven't heard anybody fixing the problem. The may be hiding due to other changes in the client(my guess). If it is a really critical issue then assign the bug to me. I need a Windows XP machine to test the problem.

there is an XP machine in the Installation lab on 2nd floor-

I can't reproduce this on current builds and obviously noone else can for the last year. -> WFM

v