Redesign recipients address fields (To, Cc, Bcc) as single-line input fields for multiple comma separated addresses - not one line/row per address
Categories
(Thunderbird :: Message Compose Window, enhancement, P2)
Tracking
(thunderbird_esr68 wontfix, thunderbird72 wontfix)
People
(Reporter: olaf, Assigned: aleca)
References
(Blocks 14 open bugs, Regressed 2 open bugs, )
Details
(Keywords: ux-efficiency, ux-minimalism, Whiteboard: [parity-all-other-mailers][parity-postbox][relnotetb78])
User Story
**Important notice** ************************************************************ For more information, please refer to the documentation about the new addressing area in Thunderbird 78 (currently only available in English as of 2020-08-30): https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email [English template version] https://support.mozilla.org/kb/addressing-email [official link which redirects to localized versions; translations pending] For any support questions beyond that article, please use: https://support.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird ************************************************************
Attachments
(8 files, 27 obsolete files)
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Paenglab
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mkmelin
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thomas8
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Following with interest. I was a user of MRC, but had to drop it as it is currently incompatible with Cardbook (which provides two way integration with could address books, like google's).
MRC with the fix to allow these address books (https://github.com/michelRenon/mrc_compose/issues/35 ) would be a massive improvement to Thunderbird.
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Updated•5 years ago
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Comment 85•5 years ago
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This bug is long overdue.
Here's a mockup I did for the redesign of the address area in the compose dialog.
attachment 9052074 [details]
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Comment 86•5 years ago
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(adding back the old summary for findability)
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Comment 88•5 years ago
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All right, here's a first and super broken patch as a proof of concept for this new implementation.
I'm asking early feedback before going to deep.
This is just a test patch with some early work, almost everything is broken and not functional at all, so, be careful. These are the things I did and looking for feedback.
- Only 1 autocomplete input, no duplication of rows (the CC, BCC, etc, will have their own fields).
- On enter or autocomplete select, the value gets converted into a custom element.
- The new CE is a blatant copy of the email address field in the Message Header. For now is super broken, but the objective is to have the same features of the Message Header, like adding an address to the Address Book, the same context menu, etc.
- Invalid emails or not matching the address book will be highlighted in red.
- The field can handle multiple addresses at once pasted in, separated via comma or semicolon.
- After every enter, the focus stays on the input field to allow a continuous typing experience.
- I also did a bit of dark mode styling, but nothing too crazy.
That's is so far, pretty barebone initial patch.
The UI is pretty ugly right now and nothing really works, but as I said, this is just for an early evaluation.
What do you guys think about the approach from a code POV?
Does it look decent so far?
Is this a good direction?
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Updated•5 years ago
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Comment 89•5 years ago
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Uploading a quick screencap to showcase it.
Comment 90•5 years ago
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As far as I can see from the attached video sample, this is really awesome!
The interface gives a good experience, expecially to unexperienced users.
Good job 👍
Please keep us updated on your progress; I'm ready to test it when you have a testable version.
Comment 91•5 years ago
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Result and video are great... well done! Very promising...
Perhaps I would suggest to set the recipient name in bold perhaps so to create some sort of visual "separation" or "distinction" (both between name and address and between Pills) without adding any extra spaces... this would help to review entries visually... especially when numerous... if that make any sense...
Comment 92•5 years ago
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Would it now also be possible to copy and paste multiple addresses from a draft email to a new one at once?
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Comment 94•5 years ago
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Other ideas for later... if you would consider...
What about coloring Pills other than grey to see them better at least?
One color per Addressbook perhaps? Or at leat to distinguish those coming from Addressbook, Auto-Collected and New (maybe not red as this color in associated with error)?
When typing recipient not selected from auto-completion (e.g test@test.com), one could imagine that pressing space bar any time after @ would act as comma, semi-colon or enter and convert entered data into a Pills (if valid or tolerable mistake) which may be even easier and more natural way to separate recipients perhaps... in addition of other options available...
Also only converted and valid "name <address>" shall be converted in Pills and saved in auto-completion (upon sending? or conversion into Pills?) for new recipient... faulty once shall not be converted, saved or usable (or at own risk?)... a warning would raise upon
conversion/validation... but still allowing end-user to correct or continue at his own "risk" ;-)
Comment 95•5 years ago
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Comment 96•5 years ago
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This is looking good overall, a nice and promising start on a valuable feature! I have a few thoughts.
Glancing over the code I noticed two places where the focus shifts to the subject line. Ideally there would be only one place where that happens. Should be do-able.
As a user I share the concern expressed above about not being able to copy a group of addresses that have been entered. (It's one of my frustrations with the current one-address-per-row UI.) It looks like pasting a group of addresses in would work (right?), but copying them back out looks like a more difficult problem -- if we want to be able to do that and have the pill functionality.
If we can't support selecting and copying (and deleting?) groups of pills, then we might consider offering other options, like maybe a button to "copy all to clipboard" or maybe a toggle that switches the view between "pill view" and "plain text view". Some users might prefer the plain text option. If a plain text view is something we want to offer, then it might make sense by starting with it (simpler) and then adding the pill view.
I suppose you could let backspace delete the previous pill when there's no text in the input field.
I assume it will be possible to edit an address after it has become a pill.
Finally, I have some thoughts about our use of custom elements that are a broader / another topic. I'll save that for an email or something else that's not this bug. (We're about to hit triple digit comments on this bug, so might be worth making it a meta bug at some point.)
Comment 97•5 years ago
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Comment 98•5 years ago
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Perhaps I would suggest to set the recipient name in bold perhaps so to create some sort of visual "separation" or "distinction"
That's a good point, and really easy to implement. I'll see how it looks at a later stage, when thorough UI polish is needed.
Would it now also be possible to copy and paste multiple addresses from a draft email to a new one at once?
Yes. It will be possible to select all the pills to copy and paste them into another draft email.
What about coloring Pills other than grey to see them better at least?
One color per Addressbook perhaps? Or at leat to distinguish those coming from Addressbook, Auto-Collected and New (maybe not red as this color in associated with error)?
I'll explore better colouring at a later stage, but I'm not excluding these suggestions, thanks.
Also only converted and valid "name <address>" shall be converted in Pills and saved in auto-completion (upon sending? or conversion into Pills?) for new recipient... faulty once shall not be converted, saved or usable (or at own risk?)... a warning would raise upon
conversion/validation... but still allowing end-user to correct or continue at his own "risk" ;-)
The pill won't be created unless there's a valid email address in the string (I'm coding this right now).
Fixing a mistaken "saved in auto-completion" action is something we should tackle in a separated bug.
Maybe it's only me but for me it looks a bit strange when the pills aren't in the textbox and the textbox moves to the right.
Yeah, that's just temporary as proof of concept. The final implementation won't show a separated textbox but rather the entire row will be clickable to add more addresses.
Tabbing doesn't focus the pills.
Yes, that's something I'll fix once tackling the keyboard navigation of these elements.
Also do Mailing lists get the warning class.
Yup, I still working on that :D
As a user I share the concern expressed above about not being able to copy a group of addresses that have been entered. (It's one of my frustrations with the current one-address-per-row UI.) It looks like pasting a group of addresses in would work (right?), but copying them back out looks like a more difficult problem -- if we want to be able to do that and have the pill functionality.
Copy and pasting multiple pills at once will be possible.
If we can't support selecting and copying (and deleting?) groups of pills, then we might consider offering other options...
All these things will be available and will emulate the same behaviour of dealing with a simple text string.
I suppose you could let backspace delete the previous pill when there's no text in the input field.
Yes
I assume it will be possible to edit an address after it has become a pill.
And yes
Thank you all for the feedback, I'll keep working and upload another WIP patche once I reach a good state.
Comment 99•5 years ago
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Comment 100•5 years ago
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Strongly disagree with this initiative as now stated; and - this is a key aspect of Thunderbird UI which merits a wider surveying of users IMHO.
The opening comment says that one-row-per-address is
OK for 1-3 addresses, but with more it is a real pain.
Not it isn't - in itself. It has issues which may need to be addressed - but going many-address-per-line is trading one set of problems for another. I will elaborate below, based on Olaf's list of arguments. But the main point is that it is difficult and inconvenient to search through multiple lines with variable number of recipients each of varying length and possibly different languages. The fact that Thunderbird does not make you do that (when writing email at least) - is a benefit of Thunderbird over, say, MS Outlook and Evolution. Don't take it away please
Almost every other software supports putting addresses in comma separated list.
And so does Thunderbird. You can type that in or copy-paste it and it'll get adjusted to the one-address-per-line view. If you want to see all the addresses narrowly-spaced together - that could be a feature I suppose, but not replacing what we have now.
Olaf presented several arguments against the current UI approach; let me address them.
- Habits - if people use other e-mail clients they expect that things work in similar way - please don't classify this simply as aesthetics.
The important habits are for Thunderbird users, not for MS Outlook users; and immitating MS Outlook is not a principle to go by. Also note that when writing formal letters, we typically have one recipient per line - that is the actual habit to uphold.
- If you have more than 4 recipients you need to scroll - this is what makes me personally unhappy, in outlook you can enter more than 15 addresses (depending on address length:) per one recipient type (To, Cc, Bcc) before you need to scroll (the widget expands up to 4 rows before adding scrollbar).
When you have more than 20 or 30 recipients, you would need to scroll with multiple addresses per line. Plus, the non-scrolling search becomes difficult faster.
It is much easier if you can see all the recipients at a glance.
No. It would be easier if we could see them all aligned. But on a single line - we don't really see them at a glance. Unless there are few of them, in which case we usually see them at a glance as things stand already.
You won't miss any person to send, and what is more important - you won't send to a person that shouldn't get the mail :)
You very well might - since it's easier to miss people in non-aligned layout. Also, with many recipients - you need to scroll anyway, and scrolling is much easier when there's alignment.
- If you put several entries in "To" and then you change your mind and want to put some of them in "Cc" or "Bcc" it is easier to copy and paste than to change every "To,CC,Bcc" combo.
But if you move a person from "To" to "CC" it is more difficult, since instead of just two clicks - or even a single click, see: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251917
- If you want to remove some addresses you need to select every one separately and delete.
That is not inherent to a one-address-per-line layout. This can, and should, be changed. I'm pretty sure there's a bug page about that.
BTW. there is no way to delete unused fields, it is possible to delete only addresses.
You don't need to "delete unused fields"; there are infinitely many unused rows at the bottom of the recipient list.
- If you send several messages to the same group of people (or a large portion of addresses is the same - eg. all addresses in CC). With "multi address" fields (like in Evo, Outlook) you can just select and do a copy/paste. In Thunderbird it is impossible.
This is just the combination of the previous issue and the next issue.
To make this even harder, in Thunderbird the text in message header pane cannot be selected, so you can't select addresses from a message and put in address fields. I'll fill separate bug for it anyway.
Indeed, that should be addressed - we should be able to copy multiple recipients when reading messages as well. For now it's possible by viewing the source and copying the text from there... :-(
A few final points:
- One line/field per recipient means you can order your recipients either by category (To/CC/BCC), but also in other ways (e.g. alphabetically), while one line per category forces an ordering.
- I would have liked to see better real-estate use by making it possible for users to indicate they want to add recipients in another column, splitting the recipient list section of composition window vertically (but not right from the get-go so it doesn't look like a bingo card).
- A one-line-per-category preview of the recipients would also be nice, but not as the only way to enter them.
- aleca - putting aside the fact that I don't like the basic notion, it seems nicely implemented. I don't mean to disparage your great work!
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Comment 101•5 years ago
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100 comments....yay...
Thanks for your feedback Eyal, but it's missing completely the scope of this patch.
Strongly disagree with this initiative as now stated; and - this is a key aspect of Thunderbird UI which merits a wider surveying of users IMHO.
The proposed UI with a thorough explanation of the various usability features was released here: https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/ux/T37151b06e9361fac/work-started-on-redesign-recipients-address-fields-to-cc-bcc-etc
It was reviewed and approved by the core team and the technical director, and the exploration of this solution was initially introduced 7 months ago in bug 1535503.
All your points and issues are mostly related to the way you're personally used to use the compose message, how you feel comfortable, and the workarounds you learned with time to overcome some issues.
Those are not an indication of good usability and intuitive UI.
The proposed solution introduces many usability improvements, and helps streamlining the UI for multiple scenarios, while the current implementation comes with too many "IFs" and "BUTs", and it doesn't scale gracefully.
I'm sure you'll have many further points, so please keep writing in the topicbox thread and let's limit this bug to code related feedback.
Thanks.
Assignee | ||
Comment 102•5 years ago
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All right, this is starting to get into a pretty good shape.
Here's the full list of what's working:
- Pasting multiple addresses will be converted into pills.
- Pills have focus.
- Double Click or hit Enter on a Pill turns it back into an editable autocomplete input.
- Hitting Enter after editing a pill will update the values and switch back to a pill.
- Hitting Escape while editing a pill will revert to the previous value.
- Backspace from the main autocomplete input selects the last pill.
- Delete or Backspace while a pill is focused deletes it.
- Navigate all the pills with Tab and Shift+Tab.
- Warning colour if an address is valid but not in the address book.
- Error colour if an address is not valid.
What's missing
- Add the other rows through links.
- Links will be populated based on user settings (Reply-To, Followup-To, etc).
- Ability to collapse/expand long list of pills.
- Select multiple pills at once with the usual various shortcuts.
- Drag&Drop one or multiple pills within the same container to reorder.
- Drag&Drop one or multiple pills between various containers.
More things to code
- Update all the tests
- Generate pills when forwarding/editing an email
- Enable context menus for the pills like in the email header.
I'm sure I'm missing a million of other things, but slowly, step by step, this is getting pretty.
Comment 103•5 years ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #102)
- Backspace from the main autocomplete input selects the last pill.
Hitting Backspace in such situation shall delete the last pill (1) not select it... pressing left arrow (or shift+tab) instead would select it...
That would seems a more natural and expected behaviour from Backspace key...
Alternatively (or in addition) if it was a pill just converted, hitting Backspace shall move back the pill in edit mode (2)... with the pointer set after last character... it would act like erasing last space comma or semi-colon that triggered pills conversion... but only if it was just last edited/converted... otherwise behaviour (1) may prevail...
Just a thought...
Comment 104•5 years ago
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Comment 107•5 years ago
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It is great to see improvement in this bug. I'd strongly recommend installing MRC Compose for comparison. Features of MRC Compose that help a lot in "more than one address per line" mode:
- Default text that informs users of how to input addresses.
- Ability to show/hide CC, BCC, Reply-to and other fields.
- Counter of recipients on the left of the corresponding field (helps to see if one has double paste a very long list of recipients)
- Ability to configure which address books are searched (LDAP is too slow for me, but sometimes I need to enable it)
- Sorting criteria (Popularity!)
Comment 108•5 years ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #102)
- Select multiple pills at once with the usual various shortcuts.
It will be useful if keyboard shortcuts will work exactly as if the list of pills were words separated by ",":
At start of a pill:
- backspace: convert the previous pill to text, pressing backspace again will start deleting text
- ctrl-backspace: delete previous pill
- ctrl-del: delete next pill
- left-arrow: convert the previous pill to text and place the cursor under the last letter (in case I did a typo while writing the address)
- ctrl-left-arrow: convert the previous pill to text and place the cursor at the start of the pill
- ctrl-shift-left-arrow: select the previous pill (one should be able to do this several times to select several pills, like selecting several words)
In the middle of the text of a pill:
- home-end: move to start/end of pill
- ctrl-left/right-arrow: move between words (as usual)
- "," close the pill, start a new one
At any point:
- ctrl-home: convert the first pill to text and move the cursor under the first letter.
- ctrl-end: convert the last pill to text and move the cursor under the last letter:
- shift-ctrl-home: select all pills from current position to the first one (thus, end -> shift-home selects all pills, the Ctrl+C/X copies/cuts all addresses, separated by commas)
- shift-ctrl-end: select all pills from the current position to the last one
- Ctrl-Z undo last edit (undo delete pill/s, undo typed pill/s)
I'm sure you get the idea. This is the standard navigation/editing shortcuts, just that pills are treated as whole words unless they are being edited. Otherwise, navigating/editing many addresses will become a pain and all the benefits of having addresses in a single line (like MCR Compose does) will be lost.
(It would be nice to add to the whish-list to have X and contact photos in the pills like these chips here: https://material-ui.com/components/chips/ )
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Comment 109•5 years ago
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More improvements to the recipient pills.
This updated patch brings lots of accessibility improvements and various fixes.
- You can navigate through the various pills with the arrow keys other than TAB and SHIFT+TAB.
- Added the X icon to delete pills.
- Fixed the email address re-appearing after a pill was created.
- Fixed a couple of conflicts with the autocomplete while editing pills.
- Improved UI and colours between the different states.
I have another WIP patch that adds the various CC, BCC, etc, almost ready to be uploaded, but I need a bit more time to fix a couple of quirks.
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Comment 113•5 years ago
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And I forgot to write that the text box is taller than the From menulist and the subject text box. Maybe reduce the space above/below the pill to make it less tall.
Comment 114•5 years ago
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Comment 115•5 years ago
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Thanks all for the positive feedback.
Here are some notes regarding what your wrote.
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #110)
the delete button inside the pill has a uneven border around it. On the right it is wider than top/bottom.
This should be fixed in the upcoming patch, but anyway I'm not super focused on pixel perfection across OSs, so something will definitely look not aligned until the final patch.
when I edit a pill (not easy to find without a context menu :) ) it expands and shifts the following pills to the right.
Fixed in the upcoming patch, the width of the editing area should respect the length of the pill.
I'm also adding a context menu with the "Edit" item. I was also thinking, would be worth considering showing a pencil icon on hover? So the user can click that to edit the address? More discoverable than a double or right click.
(In reply to Paul Morris [:pmorris] from comment #114)
Double-click to edit a pill, then click to put the cursor elsewhere, the pill stays in 'editing mode'. ..Seems like it should exit editing mode when
it loses focus? (Probably just still to do.)
I'm not sure about this as it might be super annoying for the user. Think about the scenario where you're writing an address, and you need to copy it from another window, or maybe you click somewhere else to view another email and confirm the address, and the pill reverts back losing your temporary editing.
Maybe I can implement a condition in which if the email address is valid while losing focus, the pill reverts back, but if it's not, it remains in edit mode.
When adding addresses, the cursor goes to the next line before you expect it to. And when resizing the window the height of the "TO" field moves from one to two lines where you don't expect it. Would it work to shrink the width of the text input element to avoid these things?
This is an annoying limitation I'm not sure how to overcome as a wider input is necessary for the autocomplete panel. That panel is as wide as the input field, so we can't shrink it down too much otherwise the autocomplete list can get unreadable.
Might not be worth it, at least in the first release of this, but users might want to be able to enter new addresses between existing pills.
That'd be nice, but I'm not sure it's possible with the current autocomplete field. Maybe for the future.
Would be a good idea to develop this behind a temporary pref, so we could go ahead and land code incrementally as we go rather than all at once? Then when it's ready, turn it on?
I'm not against this, I'll let Magnus decide for this matter.
Regarding code reviews
Indeed, there are a lot of quirky decisions and repeated code, but that's normal for now.
For now, I'm more interested in making this work and have a working patch for the entire email sending workflow.
Lots of things are probably useless and redundant, so apologies if I'm giving you stomachache :P
Stay tuned for another patch.
Comment 116•5 years ago
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Think about the scenario where you're writing an address, and you need to copy it from another window, or maybe you click somewhere else to view another email and confirm the address, and the pill reverts back losing your temporary editing.
Ah, good point. Suggestion withdrawn. That is too bad about the width of the autocomplete panel.
Comment 117•5 years ago
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Exciting stuff happening here, thanks everyone, and special thanks to Alessandro for taking on the beast!
1.) Could we fine-tune the click pattern for "edit pill" & friends a bit?
Single-click on pill: Select pill (select more pills with Ctrl+click/shift-click)
Single-click on selected pill: Edit pill ***
Double-click on pill: open associated contact (create new contact if not yet associated)
Rationale: Exploit users' habitual click-patterns from other, similar tasks, e.g. selecting and renaming files in Explorer (ux-consistency).
*** "Edit pill" probably refers to a direct, one-time edit, right? As opposed to changing a possibly associated contact in the address book.
2.) I'm not so sure yet about the best behaviour for outside clicks while editing pill (leaning towards exiting edit mode), but definitely we can't have a situation where multiple pills are in edit mode, as was pointed out above.
3.) Thunderbird users have been with neat, vertically aligned addresses forever; I'd think that for many users this may have become more than habit formation, they might actually appreciate this as a distinctive feature. The UX is poor not mainly because of the vertical alignment, but because of technical design and behaviour shortcomings, e.g. that we can't batch-change multiple addresses from To to BCC (in fact, we can't even select and copy multiple addresses). Also note that some of the behavioural shortcomings have been addressed in the current release version, e.g. recipients can now be navigated with cursor up/down, click to select single recipient has been implemented (pill-style), DEL and Backspace now allow controlled and predictable sequential deletion of multiple recipients with 2 keystrokes each.
I recommend:
- allowing some way of vertically aligning/sorting/etc. recipients in the new pill scheme of things (not doing so may significantly irritate existing users). This might be as "simple" as having a "legacy view" which only allows one pill per line. As others have suggested, we should try to separate views from content/roles, and explore creative variants like multi-column views of pills.
- to ease the transition for existing users, allow a two-click (or single-click) way of changing the recipient type of each pill (contextual action, hover menu etc.).
- addressing the existing UX shortcomings in the pill scheme (provide multi-select and allow multi-selection-actions like mass-changing recipient type, mass-deletion, mass-copy etc.
I'm aware that some of these might require an incremental approach, but we should ensure now that the new design allows for such.
Assignee | ||
Comment 118•5 years ago
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||
All right, here's another big improvement.
Keyboard navigation
- Now you can navigate between pills with the arrow keys and tab.
- If you hold CTRL, you can select multiple pills both with the click and the arrow navigation.
- CTRL+A will select all the pills if one is already selected (I need to add this to the input field as well).
- You can delete multiple selected pills.
Context Menu
- Pills have context menu which allow to edit, delete, and copy the email address.
Cc, Bcc, etc.
- The other fields are there and can be revealed by clicking on the label.
- You can hide the field back, and get prompted with a confirm dialog if the field has addresses in it.
- The header area grows to accommodate all the pills and fields, but as soon as you resize it, the area turns scrollable.
What's missing
- Making this thing actually work and send emails.
- Populate the fields when forwarding an email.
- Add Drag&Drop for the pills.
As usual, the overall code is very dirty, with lots of repetitions and some nasty solutions. I'm doing it this way for the sake of having a fully working prototype which we can later iterate to optimize.
The next patch I'll upload should come with everything currently missing, and we can start the review process.
Thank you again everyone for the insightful feedback and your patience on waiting on this monolith.
Comment 119•5 years ago
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Hi, I'm the developer of MRC Compose.
Alessandro, from what I saw with screenshots, you're doing a great job ! Thank you to take care of such an important point in Thunderbird.
Are you ok if I try to integrate some parts of your prototype (ideas/code) in MRC Compose ? It's something I wanted to do from the beginning, but it requires so much low-level handling that I always postponed it.
Would you like to be notified of any progress I may make ?
Cheers,
Michel
PS: MRC Compose is now compatible with TB68 and can search in Cardbook !
Comment 120•5 years ago
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Comment 121•5 years ago
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Comment 122•5 years ago
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(In reply to Paul Morris [:pmorris] from comment #120)
If I may suggest as an end-user...
- Do we want to alert the user that they are deleting addresses by closing Cc, Bcc, etc. or allow them to undo it after the fact?
Hiding Cc,Bcc,etc... shall not remove content in the first place... it should just hide it... addresses shall only be deleted if delete action is triggeref by end-user.
- Backspace or delete to remove all pills. If one is in editing mode, you get stuck on it. Backspace (or delete) stops having any effect.
For me a pill in edit mode is just a pill converted back to simple editable text (no pill anymore), as it was before it became a pill. It would be much simpler behaviour in concept. We should try to keep To,Cc,Bcc as close as possible to editable text fields, the pill system being just a visual and management aid.
Hitting backspace would simply erase text... if text become empty and you keep backspacing, I would expect previous pill (if exist) to convert back to text, and characters to start being deleted again...
Similar behaviour with the delete key.
- Start editing a pill, delete all text in it, hit enter, nothing happens. I'd expect the pill to be deleted.
If pill in edit mode become just text, if empty text I would expect the pill to no longer exists (effectively deleted). You would just end up with curser between two pills. Therefore hitting enter having no effect an empty text being not a valid email address to convert back into pill.
In a similar way, if I place cursor between two pills and hit Backspace (or Delete), it would convert previous (or next) Pill into editable text that you can further delete (per character) or amend... in a very similar way to editing a simple text...
- Click a pill to select it. Hit tab to move to the next pill. The first pill stays selected in addition to the next pill.
A bug it seems... hitting tab shall shall move selection to next tab. Previous selected pill shall remain selected only if shift+tab wss pressed together.
- If a pill that's not the first or last pill is in editing mode and you use the arrow keys to try and navigate to it and past it, it doesn't work like with tab and shift+tab. When you get to that pill you can't arrow key away from it, only tab into it to edit it some more. Arrow keys should work like tab and shift+tab for pills in editing mode.
If pill is convert back to text (edit mode) I would expect arrows to only allow navigation within the editable text.
Though one could imagine that if you reach start (or end of text) and keep pressing left arrrow (or right arrow):
- if edited text email address is valid, it would convert the text into a pill, and set the previous (or next pill) into edit mode
OR - if not valid, do nothing (just raise alert that address is invalid and must be valid)
- When a pill is in editing mode, maybe show a "checkmark" button (or
similiar, in the place where the "X" button is), that would do the same as
hitting "enter" on keyboard? Then if I switch away from an editing pill, I
can get it out of editing mode directly by using the mouse.
For me editing mode should just be text mode... no longer a pill... therefore there should be no need for such checkmark... just nee to hit Enter to convert text back into pill (or via click outside editided text).
- If the last pill is in editing mode, you can't move the cursor to the text input to add another address without taking the pill out of editing mode first.
Again editing mode shall just be text mode.
- It seems a little odd to have more than one pill in editing mode, but maybe it's fine and just a matter of getting used to it.
As edit mode is just text mode it allow to enter (or edit) multiple addresses at once... especially handy when copy/pasting multiple addresses from wherr else...
Though I would expect to only be able to edit one pills at a time after convertion not multiple unless they are next to next...
Assignee | ||
Comment 123•5 years ago
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Another patch, another iteration.
What's new
- Now you can
CTRL+C
andCTRL+X
on the pills to copy or cut them, it works for single or multiple selected pills at once. - The various selection interactions should have been fixed.
- Add addresses from Address Book has been fixed.
- Hitting
Enter
on and an empty pill while editing will delete that pill.
Pills interactions
- If you're editing a pill and you keep hitting
backspace
ordelete
the pill WILL NOT be deleted. This is to prevent accidental and unwanted deletion while clearing out wrong addresses. - While in editing mode, the arrow keys won't allow switching from a pill to another. This is to prevent accidentally leaving the pill which it can be extremely annoying. Also, hijacking the arrow keys inside an input field is not great.
Alerting the user when removing a row with pills in it
Yes, we should absolutely prompt the user with a confirm, and we should clear that row if the user decides to remove it.
Imagine the scenario where the user is forwarding an email with 100+ addresses inside the CC container. The user deletes that container because it doesn't need it and starts editing the content. Then, he realizes he needs to CC that email to another contact and reopens the CC container, finding once again the 100+ addresses he though he deleted.
The very own X
button, which implies the deletion of a row, can't trick the user by not actually deleting the content within.
It's linear, makes more sense, and it avoids us developers doing a check on submit like "the CC field has 100+ addresses, but it's hidden, so don't use them"
.
Since this patch is getting pretty big, I won't implement the Drag&Drop feature in here, but I will do that as a follow up bug after this first iteration lands on daily.
Comment 124•5 years ago
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Comment 125•5 years ago
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Looks good. Here are a few new things I noticed, but nothing that should block this from landing, just potential follow-up polishing stuff.
- Maybe add "cut" to pill context menu.
- After cutting and pasting a grey background, in-address-book pill the background was orange on the second instance, so not recognized as in the address book.
- Should you be able to tab to the "X" button for removing Cc/Bcc/Reply-to row? Currently you can't tab to them.
Updated•5 years ago
|
Comment 126•5 years ago
|
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Assignee | ||
Comment 127•5 years ago
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(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #124)
The .address-container doesn't work well with dark theme, can be fixed later.
Ah yes, I will definitely need your expertise to be sure everything looks top notch in dark mode.
Mailing lists pills are coloured red like invalid addresses.
This should have been fixed in the upcoming patch.
(In reply to Paul Morris [:pmorris] from comment #125)
Maybe add "cut" to pill context menu.
Done.
After cutting and pasting a grey background, in-address-book pill the background was orange on the second instance, so not recognized as in the address book.
Fixed.
Should you be able to tab to the "X" button for removing Cc/Bcc/Reply-to row? Currently you can't tab to them.
Good call, done.
(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #126)
I don't particularly like how the Cc Bcc Reply-to Newsgroup Followup-to field names are lined up under the To line.
Indeed, that's not an optimal placement. I'm experimenting with other locations, one of which is inline the To field, right aligned.
Also, I'm thinking about "hiding" the less common labels behind a dropdown menu. I'm not sure yet, still trying to find the best solution.
Also we'd not want to have the Newsgroup and Followup-To ones there showing for all mails.
That shouldn't be the case as I've updated the code in the hideIrrelevantAddressingOptions()
to not show those fields based on the account type.
For the To row, what's not working atm is at least entering addresses that aren't in your ab already.
That works for me, can you elaborate on that? If you write a new address and you hit Enter, what happens?
And commas between addresses should work.
That works for me as well. If I write multiple addresses separated by a comma and then hit Enter, all those addresses are converted into pills.
The Subject "box" seem to have lost its top border.
It never had a top border. It has always been the bottom border of the field above.
Moving the Cc, Bcc, etc, labels to the right should fix that visual "issue".
I'm still struggling a bit with the email submission and the automatic fill-up of the fields on replied or forwarded emails.
Those methods are tightly coupled with so much stuff that it's giving me a hard time.
Sorry for the delay. A new patch ready for review will be uploaded ASAP.
Comment 128•5 years ago
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Try this: add an address with autocomplete, then try to add an address that's not in the addressbook.
You shouldn't have to press enter either. Once you add a comma it's the next address.
Assignee | ||
Comment 129•5 years ago
|
||
Ah, I see, that's a UX issue.
In order to solve this I've implemented the creation of the pill when the comma character is pressed, or onblur of the input field with a valid email address.
You're right, users shouldn't be force to hit Enter or Tab to create a pill.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Comment 130•5 years ago
|
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #129)
Ah, I see, that's a UX issue.
In order to solve this I've implemented the creation of the pill when the comma character is pressed...
Would semi-colon ';' be usable as email address separator? Basically having same effect as comma ','? This may bring some flexibility especially for copy/paste, if not directly by end-user possible habits...
When To, Cc, Bcc are empty would there be any hint text in the field to indicate to 'Enter email addresses comma or semi-colon separated' as a tip? May be handy for new or accustomed users ;-)
Assignee | ||
Comment 131•5 years ago
|
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All right, I think it's time to start the first of (I suspect) many reviews.
The whole workflow works now.
Sending emails work.
The various forward, reply, etc, work.
Writing to an entire list work.
Old methods
I started removing the unused methods of duplicating rows and checking for dummy_rows, but I think I'll stop for now as some of those methods are tightly coupled with the Address Book methods.
I will take care of those in a follow up clean-up patch.
UI and UX
Currently not at a great state, but if it's OK for you Magnus, I'd like to focus on landing a working and usable patch, with all the tests green, to then follow up with a UI-centric patch on a different bug.
Having the working prototype will help me to define better what we need and how it should be improved.
Tests
All the tests are failing, obviously, but I will hold off on those until this patch gets an r+.
What's missing
Dropping email addresses on a field is broken, but it should come in the next patch.
Thanks everyone for reviewing this beast.
Would semi-colon ';' be usable as email address separator?
Done :D
Comment 132•5 years ago
|
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Re semi-colon: I think you shouldn't. Pasting will do the right thing nowadays. Eventually we want to support group syntax and I wouldn't want to have users wrongly trained to use it.
Comment 133•5 years ago
|
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(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #132)
Pasting will do the right thing nowadays.
You mean it would convert semi-colon into commas and convert addresses into pills on the fly?
Eventually we want to support group syntax
How using semi-colon as separator prevent group syntax?
Is there an RFC or other reference that indicate/recommand semi-colon as email separator for group/distribution list?
Is your idea to be able to create an auto-completion group by just typing email addresses separated by semi-colon?
and I wouldn't want to have users wrongly trained to use it.
You may be right on this, maybe then accept it as a valid separator but don't encourage it...?
This would bring flexibility - some email client use semi-colon as separator or accept it as alternative to coma...
Unless of course you have other plan/idea...
Comment 134•5 years ago
|
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Just try copy-pasting something with semi-colon and you'll see we make that right (already on release).
Group syntax is RFC 5322, see "Group Addresses". Like "Family: Foo <foo@example.com>, Bar <bar@example.com>"; "Friends: Joe <joe@example.com";
Comment 135•5 years ago
|
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Could someone kindly offer a try build? TIA.
Assignee | ||
Comment 136•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Thomas D. from comment #135)
Could someone kindly offer a try build? TIA.
I'll do that later once the majority of the tests are fixed, and a couple of missing features are added to the patch.
Probably before the end of this week.
Comment 137•5 years ago
|
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Assignee | ||
Comment 138•5 years ago
|
||
Here's another patch with more improvements:
- Address Book lists are now recognized and properly styled.
- Drag and Drop of addresses from the Address Book sidebar to the field works, as well as dropping them on top of the labels.
- All the Address Book methods have been moved to the dedicated JS file. The addressingWidgetOverlay.js now handles only the compose dialog methods.
Here's a try run with all the builds:
https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=2bb73e8838882784652dd6e5d91640d5474bb9c2
Be aware that:
- All the tests will fail.
- The UI is not final and many improvements will come in the next days.
Please, test it and report issues!
I'm sure this patch will introduce many many many regressions, so, ignoring the fact that this bug is gonna probably reach 200+ comments, I'd like to ask anyone interested to grab a build, test it, and report any issue or bug you stumble upon.
Comment 139•5 years ago
|
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I'm testing the patch, and it works really well! I like the UI design, too.
A few minor glitches that I noticed and that should be easy to fix:
- It's too happy to make entries without email address. E.g. "where.com" results in "where.com <>" in a red pill
(where.com <> [x])
. I don't think such entries with syntactically invalid email address should be created at all. As pill, they look valid, even if red. And as pill, they are hard or impossible to fix. I think they should just stay text until they are fixed. - It's a little to quick to end the entry and create a pill. E.g. on my keyboard, the comma
,
(which creates a new pill) is right next to.
(which I need for an email address), and I've repeatedly accidentally create a new pill when I didn't want to. Once it's a pill, it's hard to fix. Not sure how I'd solve that. - Backspacing into a pill should not delete the pill, but re-enter edit mode and delete only the last characters. Probably similar for other key strokes like arrow keys and others.
All these are minor "editor rules" issues. Technically, this works really well, from what I'm seen in my quick test. Good job!
Comment 140•5 years ago
|
||
Style (sorry for the bike-shedding):
- I don't like the colors, esp. the yellow. I'd stick to a more conventional grey. Color doesn't fit here.
- The contrast between foreground color and background is too low.
- If you use red for error (I'd rather not create a pill at all in this case, see above), make the red much more flashy.
Comment 141•5 years ago
|
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(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #139)
- Backspacing into a pill should not delete the pill, but re-enter edit mode and delete only the last characters.
Please don't. Backspacing onto a pill should delete the pill, and consecutive backspaces should delete pills backwards one by one. Backspacing to delete character-wise only makes sense for a single pill in edit mode. It's highly unlikely that user needs to edit more than one or two odd pills in a delete-per-character fashion, whereas it's much more likely that recipients need to be removed. We have just introduced the distinction in bug 1527547 to improve the UX-efficiency of removing recipients, and it works well: For editing a single recipient, backspace deletes characterwise until that recipient (display name and email address text) is completely deleted. Pressing backspace again on an empty recipient row will remove the row and start removing recipients one by one. I haven't tried pills yet, so I'll comment again after that, but I believe wrt keyboard deletion pills should behave similar to the current release version behaviour, where my patch of bug 1527547 has created a precursory pill-style experience.
Comment 142•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 143•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #139)
It's too happy to make entries without email address. E.g. "where.com" results in "where.com <>" in a red pill
(where.com <> [x])
.
Good call. Text won't be converted into pills if the address is not valid.
It's a little to quick to end the entry and create a pill. E.g. on my keyboard, the comma
,
(which creates a new pill) is right next to.
(which I need for an email address), and I've repeatedly accidentally create a new pill when I didn't want to. Once it's a pill, it's hard to fix. Not sure how I'd solve that.
If this happens, you can easily edit the pill by using the left arrow key to select the pill, then press Enter to enable edit mode, and now you can edit the pill address.
Anyway, this problem should be solved because even if you hit ,
accidentally, the pill won't be created because the string doesn't contain a valid email address.
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #142)
- The fields are no more vertically aligned in columns because the text fields begins directly after the To: label.
The UI is not polished at all and I'll need to iterate on it a bit more to find a better overall solution.
When I DnD a valid address from sidebar the address is shown red first until I press the ENTER button or click in a other text field. A valid address should never be red and when dropping a address from the sidebar it should change immediately convert to a pill.
We found out that the patch was outdated, so these issues have been fixed in the most recent patch.
I have a little problem with character encoding. When the pill gets created from an address with special characters (eg. ö) those characters turn into a question mark.
That's pretty odd as I'm simply storing those values into a label
inside a custom element.
Does anyone know if custom elements need an encoding
attribute, or the UTF-8 charset needs to be specified somewhere?
I'm attaching a screenshot of the issue right after this message.
Thanks everyone for the feedback and the help.
Assignee | ||
Comment 144•5 years ago
|
||
Here's the outcome of an address saved into a label value.
Comment 145•5 years ago
|
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Please also check with these 4 characters: ŐőŰű
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+0150
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+0151
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+0170
https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+0171
For an test email address, please try:
ÁáÉéÍíÓóÖöŐőÚúŰű, Testing <ÁáÉéÍíÓóÖöŐőÚúŰű@example.com>
What do you think?
Thank you
Comment 146•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 147•5 years ago
|
||
All right, here's an updated patch with everything that was highlighted by Magnus.
I also fixed the wrong charset when dealing with special characters.
The originalInput is really confusing. Maybe it just needs a better name and documentation. It's just the base name?
Yeah, I'm not happy with the name either.
That is the ID of the autocomplete html:input where the pill was generated from. I need that to ensure keyboard navigation and focusing on it if all the pills are delete.
Which name would make more sense? I added a comment but I'm not sure it's clear.
We should avoid putting random attributes on standard elements like this. Is there a better way to handle this?
True, sorry about that. I ended up using the control
attribute to reference the html:input. I didn't need a custom attribute at all.
Onto fixing all the failing tests.
Comment 148•5 years ago
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Had to interrupt my holiday to check this out. Looking good :-)
Comment 149•5 years ago
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Oops, spoke to early. Try this: Create a Cc field. Summon the addressing side bar or open an address book. Try dragging an address to the Cc field :-( - I don't want to mention that this malfunction could be quite fatal when a Bcc address is added to the To field.
Assignee | ||
Comment 150•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) (PTO to 1st Dec 2019, not reading bugmail) from comment #149)
Oops, spoke to early. Try this: Create a Cc field. Summon the addressing side bar or open an address book. Try dragging an address to the Cc field :-( - I don't want to mention that this malfunction could be quite fatal when a Bcc address is added to the To field.
Ah, I see why this is happening.
Most likely you didn't drop the address exactly on the label, which it doesn't grow 100% of the column's width, and by default if a drop area is not recognized it falls back to the To field.
So, it's a matter of CSS and ensuring the the entire address row is accepted as a correct drop area, and not just the label or the input field.
Thanks for testing it and reporting this.
Assignee | ||
Comment 151•5 years ago
|
||
I started tackling the majority of the failing tests and I'm moving forward towards a green try run.
While updating tests, I was able to nail down some quirks and unexpected wrong behaviours, hopefully with the remaining tests to fix, I will lower the number of potential regressions to a manageable amount.
Here's a fresh try-build for anyone interested in testing it: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=16ba5865ee16850d0f618d7e49c900a83ac6b126
Comment 152•5 years ago
|
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I was able to nail down some quirks and unexpected wrong behaviours
Including fixing comment #149? I was dragging onto the field, not the label, BTW.
Assignee | ||
Comment 153•5 years ago
|
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This is ready for a full review as all the tests on Linux have been fixed.
I've also been using daily with this patch applied all day to send emails and I didn't stumble upon any issue...so far.
Here's the try run: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=37715c9cc02dcb65deeb5c40b1f40a728a9c6a94
There are a couple of tests failing on macos, which I will fix tomorrow since I have to update the UI and dark theme variation for that platform.
Assignee | ||
Comment 154•5 years ago
|
||
Here's a patch to apply on top of the original one to implement a slicker and more refined UI.
This is good to test only on Linux for now as I will be tackling macos issues tomorrow.
Comment 155•5 years ago
|
||
Repeating: Have you addressed comment #149? (see comment #152).
Assignee | ||
Comment 156•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) (PTO to 1st Dec 2019, not reading bugmail) from comment #155)
Repeating: Have you addressed comment #149? (see comment #152).
Yes. Sorry, I meant to answer your question in my previous comment but I forgot.
I tested it on Linux and macos and it works. Now, it shouldn't matter where you drop the address on the entire row, the field should always be the expected one.
Comment 157•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 158•5 years ago
|
||
Issues I found, not fatal and some could be done in follow-up patches/bugs.
- I think, the drop-shadow of the boxes is too dark. First when I saw it, I thought there must be a popup below that doesn't open correctly ( I was in the "From" menulist). With dark theme the drop-shadow is very hardly visible.
- It seems depending on the recipient pill's length it calculates if a second pill will match on the same line. If not it expands already the text box to a second line (see screenshot Bcc field) which looks a bit weird when there is still enough space to enter an address. I think, it should only expand when the cursor touches the box on the end.
- It would be great when we have a feedback, like the mouse hover feedback, when I try to drop an address on the "Add Cc", "Add Bcc" etc. buttons.
- The text boxes grow by 1px when the first address converts to a pill (no pill in box, 29px, with pill 30.33px).
- Dragging the pills to re-order/move to an other box isn't possible. For me okay for a follow-up bug.
- Also for a follow-up bug: maybe add a "Edit Contact" menu item like we have on the message header address.
Comment 159•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 160•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Richard Marti (:Paenglab) from comment #158)
Thanks for the feedback, I'll fix what you reported.
Here some thoughts on what you suggested.
It seems depending on the recipient pill's length it calculates if a second pill will match on the same line. If not it expands already the text box to a second line (see screenshot Bcc field) which looks a bit weird when there is still enough space to enter an address. I think, it should only expand when the cursor touches the box on the end.
That's an issue Paul pointed out before, and I agree that it looks awful. The problem is that I need a min-width
for the input field in order to have a decently sized autocomplete popup. If I let the main input field shrink to fit inline with previous pills, the autocomplete popup will be too small since it inherits the width from the input field.
I'll see if I can force the popup to use the entire row container (which is styled to look like an input field but is not) as a width reference.
It would be great when we have a feedback, like the mouse hover feedback, when I try to drop an address on the "Add Cc", "Add Bcc" etc. buttons.
Dragging the pills to re-order/move to an other box isn't possible. For me okay for a follow-up bug.
Yeah. Both these edits will come in a follow up bug where I'll focus only on implementing a proper Drag& Drop experience.
(In reply to Paul Morris [:pmorris] from comment #159)
I cut and pasted a large number of comma separated addresses, say 50-100, into the To field and then hit enter to turn them into pills.
The field expanded vertically for all the pills to fit, and that pushed the rest of the UI off the bottom of the window, and there was no way to scroll to bring it back into view.
Uh oh, that's not supposed to happen, and it's definitely a bug.
I have a check in place to see if the header area grows taller than 2/3 of the window height whenever a pill is created, and if it does it should stop growing and add overflow scroll.
I'll fix that.
Comment 161•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 162•5 years ago
|
||
Here's another patch with a fix for the issue reported by Paul.
The try run is looking pretty green, except for a couple of failures I'm not sure how to deal with: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=d13eaf801f2df3b4d15e51bd0e1b3aaffe0a7055
X3 failure: security/manager/ssl/tests/unit/test_intermediate_preloads.js
How can I run this locally and debug it? It's part of m-c.
Z4 failure: That's a whole crash of the app happening on macos only. But when I test it locally I can't seem to recreate the issue and all the tests pass. Any advice?
Comment 163•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #162)
X3 failure:
security/manager/ssl/tests/unit/test_intermediate_preloads.js
How can I run this locally and debug it? It's part of m-c.>
./mach test security/manager/ssl/tests/unit/test_intermediate_preloads.js
Probably not related though
Z4 failure: That's a whole crash of the app happening on macos only. But when I test it locally I can't seem to recreate the issue and all the tests pass. Any advice?
Probably not from your patch.
Comment 164•5 years ago
|
||
X3 failure: security/manager/ssl/tests/unit/test_intermediate_preloads.js
Ignore. The person keeping the tree green should have filed a bug and fixed it. Started this morning, Thu, Nov 28, 06:06:07.
Assignee | ||
Comment 165•5 years ago
|
||
I see both X3 and Z4 happened in other try runs without my patch applied.
Thanks both for the info.
Assignee | ||
Comment 166•5 years ago
|
||
And this is the updated UI patch with the following changes:
- Light and Dark theme styled for Linux and macos (Windows currently missing).
- Added shortcuts for macos.
- Prevent input field from showing an empty blank row.
- The autocomplete popup is attached to the row container and not the small input field.
I'm currently working on the other UI solution, which will come on a patch to apply on top of this.
Since the other UI variation only changes the location of the other recipient labels, I will not upload it until this one gets reviewed and approved in terms of colours and sizing.
Comment 167•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 168•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 169•5 years ago
|
||
Added the Windows styles. Also removed a lot of no more used code. I also tried to align vertically the labels to the text inside the fields.
I had to move some code from shared to the platform files to not to have to revert styles we don't need?
On Mac I added the box-shadow: var(--focus-ring-box-shadow);
to the boxes to make it look more like the default focus on Mac.
Comment 170•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 171•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #170)
Autocomplete by adding comma + entering the next person doesn't work unless it's the first comma. I think we should also be consistent with commas and maybe add them between each recipient.
Can you elaborate on this? Sorry, but I don't think I understood what problem you encountered.
The comma is currently handled in 2 scenarios:
- While typing, if you press comma, the test before gets converted into a pill.
- When pasting multiple addresses separated by a comma, those get converted into pills on Enter or blur.
Leaving a pill in editing mode when you click outside works oddly. I know
there were some use cases listed in comments above, but it's unexpected. And
if you, say, move on to body - has it taken affect or not...?
All right, too many people gave the same feedback on this, so I guess we can see how the users react on a pill exiting edit mode on blur.
::: mail/base/content/mailWidgets.js
".emaillabel": "crop,value=label",
since this is a a new element, instead of mapping value to label, we could just use label. I think that's clearer too.
Could you point me to an example? I don't think I got what you mean, sorry.
I don't think this belongs here. An element is self-contained and shouldn't be allowed to look into the parent.
...
same here
I moved the get pills()
, get allPills()
, and get allSelectedPills()
methods to the AddressingWidgetOverlay.js
file
@paran {HTMLElement} input - The autocomplete input field.
But is there something off here? Should it be selectRecipientPill? (without
s). If not, how can you focus()?
When the focus is on the html:input and the user hits CTRL+A
I'm moving the focus on the latest pill present in the container.
All the available pills in the same row get the selected
attribute, but the focus should move on one pill in order to handle the mass cut, copy, and delete actions.
function GetMsgToRecipientElement() {
maybe we can just get rid of this... there's no need for caching and all it
does is look up the element by id which is super fast
The gMsgToRecipientElement
variable is used a couple of times in the SwitchElementFocus()
method to handle the focus via F6.
How would you suggest updating that method?
All the other points have been feedback.
I'm gonna merge the UI patch into this in order to have everything together into a single patch and avoid dealing with merging issues while updating the base patch.
Assignee | ||
Comment 172•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 173•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #171)
(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #170)
Autocomplete by adding comma + entering the next person doesn't work unless it's the first comma. I think we should also be consistent with commas and maybe add them between each recipient.
Can you elaborate on this? Sorry, but I don't think I understood what problem you encountered.
The comma is currently handled in 2 scenarios:
- While typing, if you press comma, the test before gets converted into a pill.
It doesn't seem to work if you autocompleted, get the pill, and then add a comma (doesn't trigger autocomplete when you write then). Also for cases you come back to fill in more addresses.
All right, too many people gave the same feedback on this, so I guess we can see how the users react on a pill exiting edit mode on blur.
I think that would be preferable yes.
::: mail/base/content/mailWidgets.js
".emaillabel": "crop,value=label",
since this is a a new element, instead of mapping value to label, we could just use label. I think that's clearer too.
Could you point me to an example? I don't think I got what you mean, sorry.
For the above mapping it means you'd set pill.value="foo" to get the label to be foo. Seems more readable to just have it be pill.label="foo" to set the label. So the rule would be ".emaillabel": "crop,label",.
I don't think this belongs here. An element is self-contained and shouldn't be allowed to look into the parent.
...
same hereI moved the
get pills()
,get allPills()
, andget allSelectedPills()
methods to theAddressingWidgetOverlay.js
file@paran {HTMLElement} input - The autocomplete input field.
But is there something off here? Should it be selectRecipientPill? (without
s). If not, how can you focus()?When the focus is on the html:input and the user hits
CTRL+A
I'm moving the focus on the latest pill present in the container.
All the available pills in the same row get theselected
attribute, but the focus should move on one pill in order to handle the mass cut, copy, and delete actions.function GetMsgToRecipientElement() {
maybe we can just get rid of this... there's no need for caching and all it
does is look up the element by id which is super fastThe
gMsgToRecipientElement
variable is used a couple of times in theSwitchElementFocus()
method to handle the focus via F6.
How would you suggest updating that method?
Use document.getElementById to get it when needed.
On a more general note, the "Add Newsgroup" and "Add Followup-To" headers are now quite in your face, so to speak. They used to be much more hidden. I'm not sure what you have planned for them? The other UI alternatives you sent would have been nicer re that. As is, I think this will be confusing to many, who have no idea even what a newsgroup is.
For the pill styling, maybe they should be less rounded in the corners?
For newsgroups, the confirmation of removing the field does not show.
Assignee | ||
Comment 174•5 years ago
|
||
I implemented the full UI for solution 1 in this new patch, and fixed almost everything that was reported.
Here's a couple of follow ups:
It doesn't seem to work if you autocompleted, get the pill, and then add a comma (doesn't trigger autocomplete when you write then). Also for cases you come back to fill in more addresses.
Why would you type a comma after a pill is created? After an address is converted into a pill, it should be natural to just type a new address since the previously typed value was converted, and there's no need to write a comma between pills.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you wrote.
For the above mapping it means you'd set pill.value="foo" to get the label to be foo. Seems more readable to just have it be pill.label="foo" to set the label. So the rule would be ".emaillabel": "crop,label".
That's not really what I'm doing.
The pills structure is the following:
<pill>
<label class="emaillabel"/>
<html:input>
</pill>
So when I set pill.label="foo"
, which is what I'm doing when creating a new pill, the child <label>
gets that attribute and adds it to its value:
<pill label="foo">
<label class="emaillabel" value="foo"/>
<html:input>
</pill>
Is this a wrong approach?
I removed the gMsgToRecipientElement
variable. Do you want me to do the same for gMsgIdentityElement
and gMsgSubjectElement
since they're doing the same thing?
On a more general note, the "Add Newsgroup" and "Add Followup-To" headers are now quite in your face, so to speak. They used to be much more hidden. I'm not sure what you have planned for them? The other UI alternatives you sent would have been nicer re that. As is, I think this will be confusing to many, who have no idea even what a newsgroup is.
This patch comes with the proposed solution 1 applied.
I'm now working on a dedicated patch for solution 2, with the labels inline the To
field so we can test both by simply apply the secondary patch on top of this.
I know you're not a fan of this solution, but I wanted to avoid working on solution 2 before the overall code and base structure was close to a somewhat final state. :)
For the pill styling, maybe they should be less rounded in the corners?
I recommend to leave it like that. The rounded border style is a pretty common solution in other email clients, and the fact that it's not used anywhere else in the software it makes the pill a more recognizable element and unique to an email address.
For newsgroups, the confirmation of removing the field does not show.
Fixed.
Assignee | ||
Comment 175•5 years ago
|
||
And here's the patch with solution 2 for the UI.
This patch puts the most common extra recipients inline with the To container, and collects extra recipients inside a popup panel.
Richard, let me know if I messed something up, especially on Windows.
Cheers
Assignee | ||
Comment 176•5 years ago
|
||
I had to rebase the patch and fix various merging issues with the latest updates that landed on trunk.
Assignee | ||
Comment 177•5 years ago
|
||
And also this one is rebased.
Here's also a try run, let's see how this one goes: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=0c8944c58d1c7f43fbd6299ae93dec5f66ff6805
Comment 178•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 179•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 180•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #174)
Why would you type a comma after a pill is created?
I'd like the commas to be visible. Why you'd write it - well if you know commas separate emails, it's a natural thing to do so it shouldn't send you off to an error mode.
Is this a wrong approach?
Ah, I misread. Please ignore.
I removed the
gMsgToRecipientElement
variable. Do you want me to do the same forgMsgIdentityElement
andgMsgSubjectElement
since they're doing the same thing?
Sure, but feel free to do it in a followup.
Comment 181•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 182•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 183•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #174)
Created attachment 9113340 [details] [diff] [review]
440377-recipients-pills.patch
I implemented the full UI for solution 1 in this new patch, and fixed almost everything that was reported.
This sounds like an interesting candidate for a try build to test UI1. I guess testing outdated try builds wouldn't help. Not sure how hard it is to create try jobs, but regular try builds for this sensitive change to the traditional recipients area would be very useful and appreciated.
Assignee | ||
Comment 184•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Thomas D. from comment #183)
This sounds like an interesting candidate for a try build to test UI1. I guess testing outdated try builds wouldn't help. Not sure how hard it is to create try jobs, but regular try builds for this sensitive change to the traditional recipients area would be very useful and appreciated.
Sorry, I forgot to paste the link.
I actually run a full try build pretty much every day for these updates.
macos and Linux try build for solution 1: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=fffa69633898192ebc30dbc2646189db98c304ab
all platforms try build for solution 2: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=0c8944c58d1c7f43fbd6299ae93dec5f66ff6805
Comment 185•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #177)
Created attachment 9113386 [details] [diff] [review]
440377-ui-solution2.patch
Here's also a try run, let's see how this one goes: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=0c8944c58d1c7f43fbd6299ae93dec5f66ff6805
So I've finally had a chance to test this out for the first time (looking at UI-2).
Impressive it is, a fine work, and hard labor; thanks a lot Alessandro! :-)
As a general caveat, I believe that we should not underestimate the impact of this change to existing users who have developed their workflows in the current "vertical" recipient UI since time immemorial. Which should be an impetus to be as convincing as possible with a fine-tuned, flawless, maximally convenient, and value-added UX.
Here's some remarks/issues of my first-impression ui-review (with a special focus on keyboard operation)...
- Pls implement Shift+Movement keys for selecting multiple consecutive pills
- Pls remove Ctrl+Movement keys for selecting multiple consecutive pills, and allow selection of non-consecutive pills instead. Pls try keyboard selection methods in windows explorer; let's be consistent! For Ctrl+Movement keys, the current selection must be preserved, and we need a focus ring (only!) when moving to the next pill, which can then be selected (and de-selected) with Space bar.
- Pls distinguish the effects of hover vs. select. See windows explorer. Otherwise Ctrl+Left-click to select becomes a guessing game.
- Hand cursor? Is it a link?
- Per my comment 117, I still feel that: Double-click is non-standard and undiscoverable to edit the label of an object. Typically, single-click selects, another single-click edits, and double-click opens. Compare e.g. the behaviour of file name labels in Windows Explorer ;-)
- For windows users, pls implement F2 to edit the label (which is the Windows default shortcut for editing texty things, cf. renaming files, editing Excel cells, etc.)
- Behaviour inconsistency:
- Type foo@bar.com, press Enter -> get cursor to continue (correct). vs.
- Cursor onto existing pill {foo@bar.com}, press Enter to edit, Re-Type, press Enter -> still stuck on the pill. This should return the cursor to continue, just as it did for the first round of typing.
- Pressing Backspace or DEL on an empty pill in edit mode should remove the pill and just show cursor, similar to the current behaviour when pressing DEL or Backspace on an empty row (consider recipient rows a vertical precursory version of pills) - possible with event.repeat, see patch of Bug 1527547.
- Cursoring onto a single pill pretends to select it, but doesn't. Please do select. Just like... drumroll... Windows Explorer. We really want to use Ctrl+X and Ctrl+C on that single pill.
- Please allow me to enter |Johnson, Peter| even when I already have |Johnson, Jane| in my address book. Current: comma after a name which has a (single?) partial autocomplete match will create the pill prematurely: {Johnson}
- Do we need a permanent delete button on CC and BCC rows? I think it's enough to show the delete button when the row (or the CC label) is hovered or focused. We've just de-cluttered the recipient area, and the general trend in UX is hiding what's not immediately needed in the given context.
- Thou shalt not kill:
-
have a couple of pills
-
start typing another one:
{pill-1} {pill-2} ... {pill-N} John D| -
notice that you want Jane Doe instead, hold Backspace to correct what you just typed...
BOOM! All pills gone. :-(( Please don't. Backspace must break/stop after deleting the unfinished pill. Only after releasing and re-pressing the backspace key, that's when we want to start deleting other pills. Use event.repeat as above in my point 8, see patch of Bug 1527547.
So much for now. It's a lot of work. Again, much appreciated! :-)
Comment 186•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #184)
macos and Linux try build for solution 1: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=fffa69633898192ebc30dbc2646189db98c304ab
Unfortunately not testable for Windows-only consumers like myself :/
Assignee | ||
Comment 187•5 years ago
|
||
Thanks Magnus for the review.
I fixed pretty much everything except the originalInput
, which now I'm defining as a scoped variable in the pill CE constructor.
I tried not to have it at all, but a pill needs to know from which html:input
element was originated from to get attributes and proper focus handling between elements, and I couldn't figure out a way to achieve that without bleeding into the document from within the pill CE.
Also, for the getAllPills and similar methods, I think we can have those into a parent CE which wraps the entire recipients area, but I'd like to tackle that in a follow up patch. Would that be OK?
Thomas, thanks for the detailed feedback, I applied pretty much all those improvements, which were minor thanks to the somewhat modular approach I tried to give to this thing.
A couple of notes:
Per my comment 117, I still feel that: Double-click is non-standard and undiscoverable to edit the label of an object. Typically, single-click selects, another single-click edits, and double-click opens.
I think at the pill as a closed element, that's why the double-click makes sense for me, since you need to "open" the element to access the input field within. I see how it can be seen a bit of a learning curve, but I'd like to land the patch with this approach, and gather feedback from users on daily.
Please allow me to enter |Johnson, Peter| even when I already have |Johnson, Jane| in my address book. Current: comma after a name which has a (single?) partial autocomplete match will create the pill prematurely: {Johnson}
That's a bit of an annoying issue with the autocomplete. I'll see if I can do something about it, otherwise we'll need to deal with this in a followup patch.
What's missing
- I'm trying to find a decent solution to all those
setTimeout()
, trying to avoid using them. - Implement the
event.repeat
to prevent unwanted deletions. - Fix the remaining couple of failing tests.
A new patch a new try run will come later tomorrow.
Side note
Many more improvements could be done to this patch, that's why for future additions and suggested edits, I will open dedicated follow up bugs I will deal with once this has landed.
This patch is already massive and pretty hard to review, and I'm sure a bunch of regressions will unfortunately come with it, so I think it's better to have something landing at a state we're pretty satisfied with in order to allow everyone to test it and keep iterating throughout smaller patches.
Cheers.
Comment 188•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #187)
Also, for the getAllPills and similar methods, I think we can have those into a parent CE which wraps the entire recipients area, but I'd like to tackle that in a follow up patch. Would that be OK?
Sure, but please add comments in the code too about this, and reference the bug to fix it.
Comment 189•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #187)
Thomas, thanks for the detailed feedback, I applied pretty much all those improvements
Awesome!!! Looking forward to your next Windows try build.
A couple of notes:
Per my comment 117, I still feel that: Double-click is non-standard and undiscoverable to edit the label of an object. Typically, single-click selects, another single-click edits, and double-click opens.
I think at the pill as a closed element, that's why the double-click makes sense for me, since you need to "open" the element to access the input field within. I see how it can be seen a bit of a learning curve, but I'd like to land the patch with this approach, and gather feedback from users on daily.
Agreed, thank you for sharing the rationale, now it makes sense. In fact, my postulate was inaccurate: double-click is default action (which may or may not be "open"), must match ENTER on keyboard, and our default action here is "Edit pill" - fair enough.
- So now we have:
- Double-click on pill -> Edit pill
- Enter on selected pill -> Edit pill
What if you just add this as a complementary method: - Single-click on selected pill -> Edit pill (like mouse-renaming of files in Win Explorer)
I'm suggesting this here (as opposed to followup bug) because I think it could significantly ease the transition from the current "editable text" recipients: Click once expecting to edit text -> pill selected (fail, but there must be a way!?). Stubbornly click again on selected pill -> pill in edit mode (success, even somewhat discoverable). In fact, that mimics the current behaviour exactly, as we're already auto-selecting recipients "pill-style" since my bug Bug 1527547. With the current iteration of the patch here, it may feel too hard/undisdoverable for users how to break that resistance of pills against being edited... ;-)
- As a side note (for followup), here's some ideas how to enable "Edit (address book) Contact":
-
Pill context menu: Edit Contact (vs. Edit Recipient)
-
Alt+Enter / Ctrl+I on selected pill -> Edit Contact (default shortcuts for "Properties"; try it in TB's contacts side bar)
I'm hesitating a bit because I'm not sure about the correlation between a recipient email address and contact card(s) in the AB, which is currently flawed in the ancient design of TB's address book. If the correlation can be made in a predictable way which does not hinder the new AB design, the above should be implemented. Oh, in a followup bug...
Assignee | ||
Comment 190•5 years ago
|
||
I may have solved the setTimeout issue, as I stated in bug 1601830, forcing the blur()
seems to do the trick.
I cleaned up some methods and started writing more comments to properly describe what it's happening.
I'll finish writing comments to cover all the methods I introduced, and fix the newly implemented mochitests.
Assignee | ||
Comment 191•5 years ago
|
||
I made some progress on this thanks to the suggestion from bug 1601830.
I also fixed some mochitests and other random intermittent tests I stumbled upon, and commented pretty much everything.
Magnus, please take a look at what I did with the observer inputObserver
and let me know if you think this is a correct implementation.
I'm not asking for a full review because c-c has been busted almost all afternoon and I couldn't run proper indepth tests.
Comment 192•5 years ago
|
||
Can I suggest something terrible? Postbox has had this function for years. Maybe it wouldn't be totally absurd to check how their stuff is working.
Comment 193•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) (PTO to 15th Dec 2019, sporadically reading bugmail) from comment #192)
Created attachment 9114666 [details]
postbox-pills.png
Can I suggest something terrible? Postbox has had this function for years. Maybe it wouldn't be totally absurd to check how their stuff is working.
Absolutely. Some interesting ideas there, like the dropdown context which reduces the delete button clutter at the cost of two-click recipient deletion. A bug which eats recipients upon shift-selection (shift-select last recipient, then shift+home). Incomplete selection experience (no Ctrl-selection at all). Alessandro's interim stage is already better than theirs.
Another point of comparison: gmail's webmail composition interface. Far from perfect, but nice reduced and calm layout of pills, and some good behaviour there.
Assignee | ||
Comment 194•5 years ago
|
||
I think this is ready for a full review, and at a stage where we can land it so I can start working on the follow up bugs to improve it.
Thanks to the "autocomplete-did-enter-text"
event and the handleEnter()
method, I was able to remove all those awful timeouts and event dispatching, as well as hijacking the enter keypress or the click event inside the popup.
Everything looks and feels more linear.
Can I suggest something terrible? Postbox has had this function for years. Maybe it wouldn't be totally absurd to check how their stuff is working.
For sure. I've actually been using and testing various apps to write down the various pros and cons of similar solutions, and Postbox is one of them.
This patch is more of an "initial working implementation" of the pill system, in order to have something complete and fully working to land, before continuing onto more thorough and detailed patches.
Thomas, thanks for filing those bugs, which I will be ignoring for now until this patch lands, but definitely a much needed overview of what needs to be done.
Here's the latest try-run with many improvements, and hopefully all the tests fixed: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=eef5e4aa573cad31df6382748f984d696b654752
If, for whatever reason, that try-run fails or it's busted, here's a fairly recent one with some small missing improvements, but still better than last week: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=dce9bf4efcc506e81a1404791a843f19a6cdfac7
Comment 195•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 196•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #195)
comm/mail/test/browser/composition/browser_sendButton.js is failing on all platforms on the try run. But not locally it seems... :/
Yeah, this is super annoying, but I'll get to the bottom of it.
Observers and custom elements have a life cycle problem, so I think you need to set up a window unload event listener too, where you remove the observer. disconnectedCallback isn't called at that time, so otherwise we leak.
Ah, I didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.
Does something like that look good?
// Remove the observer for each pill as the disconnectedCallback() might not
// be called on time and we might leak.
for (let pill of getAllPills()) {
Services.obs.removeObserver(
pill.inputObserver,
"autocomplete-did-enter-text"
);
}
Comment 197•5 years ago
|
||
Probably best to add it straight into the CE connectedCallback, like https://searchfox.org/comm-central/rev/065eb16ca361300b4b116f6c69ebd10ea1e6c1d0/mail/components/addrbook/content/menulist-addrbooks.js#97
Comment 198•5 years ago
|
||
To clarify, that should be for the window unload event, so that we make sure to kill off any observer references.
Assignee | ||
Comment 199•5 years ago
|
||
Sure, I added that into the connectedCallback()
method of the pill CE.
I also have an observer for the main input field, which gets removed on windows unload, unrelated to the pills.
Assignee | ||
Comment 200•5 years ago
|
||
Patch updated with all tests passing on the recent try run, except for those intermittent failures which shouldn't be related to my patch.
Comment 201•5 years ago
|
||
If an pill (i.e. email address) has an associated photo, could the photo please show when the mouse hovers above the pill. Thank you
Comment 202•5 years ago
|
||
Assignee | ||
Comment 203•5 years ago
|
||
Updated, and here's the new try-run.
Comment 204•5 years ago
|
||
You forgot the link to try. Looks like it's this (which looks good): https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=try-comm-central&revision=e8fc86894b3288d4360b195fe7a952aec10302b9
Comment 205•5 years ago
|
||
Comment 206•5 years ago
|
||
Pushed by mkmelin@iki.fi:
https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/019eaf0f9cf7
Implement new recipients address fields. r=mkmelin, ui-review=Paenglab
Updated•5 years ago
|
Comment 207•5 years ago
|
||
- No need for a static To:-Field in Newsgroups
- Cursor stays at a reply in the To:-Field and not in the Body.
- The whole change looks terrible and I see no advantage in it.
- Please build in a Backdoor to the old functionality, or the possibility to customize it.
- Thanks
Comment 208•5 years ago
|
||
While it's landed we know there are still some work to be done, so stay tuned.
Keeping the old version in parallel would be too large of an undertaking. There are at least a few features/bug fixes that will be much easier to do with this new UI but would have been more difficult to get right UI wise in the old system. E.g. bug 271405.
Assignee | ||
Comment 209•5 years ago
|
||
(In reply to ruediger.lahl from comment #207)
- No need for a static To:-Field in Newsgroups
I will explore the possibility of hiding the "To" field if the "Newsgroup" field is revealed.
- Cursor stays at a reply in the To:-Field and not in the Body.
Fixed in bug 1603526.
- The whole change looks terrible and I see no advantage in it.
The current UI is not final and many more iterations and improvements are needed.
Can you elaborate on the "no advantage statement"?
We implemented this for these reasons:
- Ability to write multiple recipients in the same field.
- Cut, Copy, Paste, and move multiple recipients from a field to another with one action (eg. 100+ addresses from To to CC).
- More compact and streamlined UI (still a WIP).
- Simpler and cleaner code based on Custom Elements without node cloning and duplicated methods.
- Making life easier for developers.
- Please build in a Backdoor to the old functionality, or the possibility to customize it.
Like Magnus said in comment 208.
- Thanks
While we know we won't be able to satisfy everyone, I'd like to reiterate that we're implementing these changes to improve the usability and stability of the software. Simply saying "the old is good don't change it" is not enough.
Please, take a look at the multiple follow up bugs we created to continue working on this area, and feel free to provide constructive feedback and suggestions on how to make it better.
Comment 210•5 years ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #209)
(In reply to ruediger.lahl from comment #207)
- No need for a static To:-Field in Newsgroups
I will explore the possibility of hiding the "To" field if the "Newsgroup" field is revealed.
TB can answer to 'Newsgroup' or 'Reply to Sender only' via Menu->Message. 'To Sender only' is no default in Newsgroups and should only be a hidden feature, even as 'Reply to all'.
- Cursor stays at a reply in the To:-Field and not in the Body.
Fixed in bug 1603526.
Great.
- The whole change looks terrible and I see no advantage in it.
The current UI is not final and many more iterations and improvements are needed.
Can you elaborate on the "no advantage statement"?
We implemented this for these reasons:
- Ability to write multiple recipients in the same field.
Was ever available with mail1@adress; mail2@adress; mail3@adress; mail3@adress
- Cut, Copy, Paste, and move multiple recipients from a field to another with one action (eg. 100+ addresses from To to CC).
ctrl-a - ctrl x(v) works between the fields.
- More compact and streamlined UI (still a WIP).
Compact is a single Button that rolls out an Menu, like the old UI does. I have all under the Mouse if I need it, by clicking on [To:]
- Simpler and cleaner code based on Custom Elements without node cloning and duplicated methods.
I don't understand that. Custom Elements like additional Entries/Buttons can be generated by Entries in user.js like: user_pref("mail.compose.other.header", "Supersedes,Control,X-No-Archive");
- Making life easier for developers.
Okay.
- Please build in a Backdoor to the old functionality, or the possibility to customize it.
Like Magnus said in comment 208.
The ability to customize should be given.
- Thanks
While we know we won't be able to satisfy everyone, I'd like to reiterate that we're implementing these changes to improve the usability and stability of the software. Simply saying "the old is good don't change it" is not enough.
In this case the old is (IMHO) better then the new.
Please, take a look at the multiple follow up bugs we created to continue working on this area, and feel free to provide constructive feedback and suggestions on how to make it better.
Okay and thank you.
Comment 211•5 years ago
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Hello @aleca,
Like mentioned on IRC yesterday, the "reply to" pill appears in red.
I am not sure if it is a bug or a feature.
See the screenshot.
Assignee | ||
Comment 212•5 years ago
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Thanks for the feedback Marco.
That's not red but orange, which means the address you're using is not currently stored in your address book.
I know it looks confusing, but that's just temporary as a better UI is getting explored in the followup bug 1601748.
Assignee | ||
Updated•5 years ago
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Comment 213•5 years ago
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[Feature request] In capsule itself, add an option toggle to, cc, bcc [like close button on end, in front To/CC/BCC] if available, it will be very nice.
Comment 214•5 years ago
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Hmm, I don't have the latest build, but in my local build of a few days old, there is not [x] to delete the pill. There's only a context menu to delete, cut, edit, etc. So what's the design to change a To to a CC? Cut and paste? Put that onto the context menu: "Move to CC"? What are the plans?
(Pasting a pill seems to paste raw text in red, and I have to hit enter to turn it into a pill. Sorry if the question is silly, I haven't followed the action closely in all related bugs, but that seems to be bug 1602456).
Assignee | ||
Comment 215•5 years ago
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Hmm, I don't have the latest build, but in my local build of a few days old, there is not [x] to delete the pill. There's only a context menu to delete, cut, edit, etc. So what's the design to change a To to a CC? Cut and paste? Put that onto the context menu: "Move to CC"? What are the plans?
The [X] was removed to clear UI noise, prevent accidental address deletion while selecting a pill, and to behave more like a desktop app and not a web app.
The plans for the "move to another recipient" option are the following:
- Copy/Cut and past pills to another recipient row: bug 1602456
- Enable drag&drop of pills: bug 1601749
We could consider adding a a menu item into the context menu as you suggested, if that's the case of the request.
I'm against adding labels or extra items in the pills unless absolutely necessary as it creates a lot of noise and makes the keyboard accessibility a bit of a nightmare.
Comment 216•5 years ago
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OK, well, yes, adding it to the context menu might be useful.
Comment 217•5 years ago
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(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) (PTO to 26th Jan 2020, sporadically reading bugmail) from comment #216)
OK, well, yes, adding it to the context menu might be useful.
Confirmed, could really be useful, as keyboard users like blind couldn't do drag and drop and copy/paste from one field to another one with the keyboard would be really practical.
Comment 218•5 years ago
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Just a concept. First box area for selection[for example click box one turn blue fill. so in selection mode]. second area mail address. single click start edit. Third area options[cut/copy/move to To/move to To Cc/move to To BCC etc.].
Comment 219•5 years ago
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Concept 2.
To/cc/Bcc will have only single input box. In front of address pill we can change.
Comment 220•5 years ago
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(In reply to Jorg K (GMT+1) (PTO to 26th Jan 2020, sporadically reading bugmail) from comment #216)
OK, well, yes, adding it to the context menu might be useful.
Confirmed, could really be useful, as keyboard users like blind couldn't do drag and drop and copy/paste from one field to another one with the keyboard would be really practical.(In reply to Jaise from comment #218)
Created attachment 9121222 [details]
mail addressconcept 1.jpgJust a concept. First box area for selection[for example click box one turn blue fill. so in selection mode]. second area mail address. single click start edit. Third area options[cut/copy/move to To/move to To Cc/move to To BCC etc.].
I imagine a simple stuff in the contextual-menu "move to". It's more consistent with what TB does in message.
Comment 221•5 years ago
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It is OK.
In my context, our organization have aged people [say 45-55]. so teach them again new method may be problem [say double click to edit, right click to get option etc]. At least if downward arrow is there, they see & click.
Comment 222•5 years ago
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(In reply to Alex ARNAUD from comment #217)
(In reply to Jorg K from comment #216)
OK, well, yes, adding it to the context menu might be useful.
Confirmed, could really be useful, as keyboard users like blind couldn't do drag and drop and copy/paste from one field to another one with the keyboard would be really practical.
Alex Arnaud, we are still working on improving the keyboard experience, and I'm known for my focus on ensuring correct and efficient keyboard UX. Please note that at this early stage, we still have a number of related bugs (see bugs in the "Blocks" section of this bug). Right now, as a keyboard user (including the blind), you can already select pills using some of the known keyboard methods like space bar to select or deselect, Shift+cursor for contiguous selection, etc. Then you can use Ctrl+X to cut, tab to move focus into the next recipient type (two tab stops after bug 1602372), Ctrl+V to paste. I think that's acceptable, but it could be even easier from context menu. We'll explore doing the context menu "Move to..." in bug 1609647.
As we're still in the process of getting the code and behaviour right, details of ARIA requirements may not immediately get the attention they deserve. Please bear with us, but do feel free to file respective bugs if they haven't been filed yet.
Comment 223•5 years ago
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(In reply to Jaise from comment #218)
Created attachment 9121222 [details]
mail addressconcept 1.jpgJust a concept. First box area for selection[for example click box one turn blue fill. so in selection mode]. second area mail address. single click start edit. Third area options[cut/copy/move to To/move to To Cc/move to To BCC etc.].
Hi Jaise, thank you for sharing your ideas! (Longer discussions would probably need another platform).
I can see where you are coming from with your concept 1, which is one possible way of doing it, and certainly deserves consideration.
Concept 1 is trying to make 3 different actions available by single-click on a certain subsection of a pill:
- Select (click left corner of pill)
- Edit (click middle part of pill)
- Context menu (click dropdown arrow in right corner of pill)
On the other hand, there's a worthwhile objection from Alessandro, our UX lead (comment #215):
I'm against adding labels or extra items in the pills unless absolutely necessary as it creates a lot of noise and makes the keyboard accessibility a bit of a nightmare.
So I'm not sure if the benefits of your concept 1 are strong enough to justify the costs.
So far, we're a desktop application, so imo context menu is a well-known and efficient way of accessing contextual functionality.
I've previously advocated for the single-click-to-edit myself, but easy selection of pills looks like an even more important aspect. Consider that editing a pill has easy access with Enter (and F2 on Windows), and it may not be the most frequent action on pills.
Your concept 1 requires a lot of user attention for all use patterns because each pill is now divided into three different click targets, also making pills significantly bigger and more noisy.
Comment 224•5 years ago
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Comment 226•5 years ago
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Hard to follow all this "pill" stuff, but having problems in beta. First, want to enter multiple addresses on one line but need single character to complete current address and start next. Have tried several chars for this, but have not found one that works. Nothing in Beta Notes. Second, appears to be discussed above, not easy to move address to different line (was easy before). Third, installation of beta wiped out toolbar customization (may not be related to this "enhancement"). Fourth, the "Cc" etc, buttons to create the lines are in an odd place. Would like the option to just auto add the two lines and hide the buttons.
Assignee | ||
Comment 227•5 years ago
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First, want to enter multiple addresses on one line but need single character to complete current address and start next. Have tried several chars for this, but have not found one that works.
I'm not sure I understand your problem.
If you start typing an address, does it prompt the autocomplete? Once the autocomplete gives you the right address, you can hit enter or comma and start typing a new address, which should prompt again the autocomplete.
Are you trying to enter multiple addresses all at once by pasting a string of emails?
not easy to move address to different line (was easy before)
You can cut and paste that address (or multiple addresses at once) from a row to another. Before it was pretty much impossible to do it quickly for more than 1 address at a time.
Drag & Drop functionality is getting introduced in a follow up bug.
installation of beta wiped out toolbar customization
Not related to this, check bug 1613965.
the "Cc" etc, buttons to create the lines are in an odd place.
What's odd about the positioning? That's quite a standard location similar to other email clients, and is very easy to reach with both mouse and keyboard shortcuts.
Would like the option to just auto add the two lines and hide the buttons.
That's a bit of an edge case that doesn't introduce any real benefit other than removing 1 click to show that line, and it's quiet odd to always need CC and BCC always visible for every email.
Comment 228•5 years ago
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entering multiple addresses with return between now works in b2. Did not in b1.
"old" way with single address per line took 1 click to change from "to" to "cc", etc. cut & paste is awkward in comparison.
I have never seen buttons to the far right. Been using mailers 35-40 years. Unix, windows, multiple other systems.
Comment 229•5 years ago
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I think I need to chime in here, there is already some push back in support over the pills and the inability to set a default BCC in particular. Many Thunderbird users curate newsletters etc for community organizations, from their church to the local football club. These people want to add all addresses to a BCC line by default for obvious reasons. Many do not send using a To: header at all, until they get SPAM classifications at least.
A couple of support topics
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1278219
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1278340
An alternative would be to allow an option to designate mailing lists to be set to add to a default send type To: CC: BCC: in the address book. But we have to consider these users, they are not an edge case in my opinion.
Comment 230•5 years ago
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(In reply to Matt from comment #229)
Many Thunderbird users curate newsletters etc for community organizations, from their church to the local football club. These people want to add all addresses to a BCC line by default for obvious reasons. Many do not send using a To: header at all, until they get SPAM classifications at least.
Adding all addresses to a BCC line may also give a SPAM classification. Newsletter are best sent using the Mail Merge add-on.
Should Mail Merge functionality be added to Thunderbird core?
Thank you
Comment 231•5 years ago
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(In reply to doug2 from comment #228)
Hey doug2, thank you for your feedback, and sorry that you couldn't warm up yet with our new recipient area.
entering multiple addresses with return between now works in b2. Did not in b1.
We're still working on improving this feature, please stay tuned. We do appreciate that it's a change which requires a bit of adjustment from the existing legacy layout. We are striving to deliver a new user experience which we believe will ultimately be significantly better, more versatile, and more efficient than the status quo.
"old" way with single address per line took 1 click to change from "to" to "cc", etc.
cut & paste is awkward in comparison.
Well, it was two clicks, one to open dropdown, next to choose type. And if you wanted to change 50 existing recipients, that was 100 clicks - now that's truly akward if you ask me. Now you can easily change 100 recipients with 3 simple steps: Ctrl+A to select all of same type, Ctrl+X to cut, Ctrl+V to paste in the other row. I find that awesome. As Alessandro said, more methods like drag and drop are coming, and I am working with Alessandro to complete the mouse and keyboard selection experience. We also have bug 1609647 about offering a two-click way of changing recipient type from context menu of each recipient, which may ease the transition for your scenario.
I have never seen buttons to the far right. Been using mailers 35-40 years. Unix, windows, multiple other systems.
Well, for now we've placed them there after careful consideration of pros and cons. Every UI design decision has them. You can now create a CC recipient with a single click on an openly available button, as opposed to carefully picking from a covert dropdown. They are also currently prime members of the tab focus ring, easy to reach with keyboard as Alessandro pointed out. If we put them to the left, others will say, why clutter the prime side with secondary options. Every change is a challenge to some extent, but no change spells doom...
That said, please do not hesitate to file bugs for regressions, or specific proposals for improvement!
Comment 232•5 years ago
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(In reply to Óvári from comment #230)
Adding all addresses to a BCC line may also give a SPAM classification. Newsletter are best sent using the Mail Merge add-on.
Despite what you saying being correct, it does not change the usage that people want to make of the program. I have spent the last 10 years trying to educate, but there are millions of them, and one of me. So let's just make a product that the users want To use in the way they want to use it. When it breaks because of spam rules we can explain that to them. It is much harder to explain why we are making it harder for them to conceal their newsletter recipients' addresses. They want to do that for privacy and EU regulations.
It is far easier to tell them spam rules are constantly changing and they got caught when it breaks, because it is not Thunderbird doing it.
Should Mail Merge functionality be added to Thunderbird core?
Certainly, it should be there, it should have been there since about version 2. But then MAPI should have been working for the last decade, but I can still not make it work.
Thunderbird reminds me of Lotus 123. Powerful and bare bones, requiring the user to build the caravan they work from on the chassis supplied by Mozilla. Microsoft always just supplied the lot and found most users used less than 20% of the features, but for the others, it was only a case of discovering them, not having to build their own.
Comment 233•5 years ago
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(In reply to Matt from comment #229)
I think I need to chime in here, there is already some push back in support over the pills and the inability to set a default BCC in particular.
Thanks Matt! If you are talking about the per-identity auto-BCC feature from account settings, then the "inability to set a default BCC" is a myth. I've just tried it and it works just like before. So I'm not seeing how the new design affects that. If there's anything which you think is not working, please file a bug and link it to this bug. Or is it about not finding the BCC button in the far-right top corner?
A couple of support topics
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1278219
I believe that report has never been accurate, but I have personally seen to it that virtually all of the unexpected jumps have been eliminated. In the new design, you can still type a recipient, press Enter, type another recipient, press Enter, no jumps. Only if you press Enter on an empty input, that will obviously move you to the next addressing row.
Yes, this one is more serious now, describing the effects of habit formation and feeling initially lost in the new layout. I do believe that the new layout is pretty much self-explaining, but yes, to existing users, there's a bit of a learning curve. We should probably prioritize bug 1609647 to ease the transition. We could also explore if there are any sustainable (or maybe temporary) ways of reacting to clicks on the To label (on the right) in an attempt to change the flavor. Postbox has a context menu to show and hide rows right there. We might even show a context menu on left-click. Or flash our new buttons on the right when you click on the left. Such transition candy might be considered when the feature is more complete.
An alternative would be to allow an option to designate mailing lists to be set to add to a default send type To: CC: BCC: in the address book.
On record as bug 163498. Yes, that could be useful to prevent accidental disclosure of the list. On the other hand, you can just add the list into the correct addressing row, and that should work, and it does per my quick tests.
But we have to consider these users, they are not an edge case in my opinion.
We should always consider our users. Edge case or not is a bit hard to tell, but the transition experience would probably deserve some more attention.
Updated•5 years ago
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Updated•5 years ago
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Assignee | ||
Updated•4 years ago
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Comment 235•4 years ago
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It's unfortunate that the most relevant UX change of Thunderbird 78 has been associated with the wrong product (MailNews Core
) all along without anyone taking notice, and hence many bugs cloned from here (and their subsequent clones) are also in the wrong product. There is very little TB code which still lives in MailNews Core
(shared with SeaMonkey
), so the correct product is Thunderbird
.
Can we make sure that at least it will be included in the release notes for TB78, because users won't read the release notes for TB73beta [1] where this landed? Thanks.
[1] https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/73.0beta/releasenotes/
Comment 236•4 years ago
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re :I do believe that the new layout is pretty much self-explaining
Sorry, but I disagree....No it isn't.
Why is Cc and Bcc associated with the FROM by placing it to the right of 'FROM' ?
It is not logical by any stretch of the imagination. It certainly will be a headache for those who have an eyesight issue and cannot locate because they are not where expected.
You can have the same buttons with same effect in the logical position on left, one above the other, next to the 'TO'.
Then it would be intuitive and users would only need to discover/learn the new functionality.
You will always need to use the TO/Cc anyway, so mouse is naturally focussed at start of TO on the left.
The mouse would only be to the right if needing to change the 'FROM' which is probably less used.
Adding and improving functionality is great and much needed, I like the sound of the proposed new functionality and it's potential, but there is no way it is logical to put buttons for cc, Bcc to appear to be associated with FROM.
re :I have never seen buttons to the far right. Been using mailers 35-40 years. Unix, windows, multiple other systems.
I completely agree with this statement.
I'm not aware of other email clients that would put TO and Bcc functionality buttons off top right of a FROM totally unassociated with the whereabouts of the actual TO,Cc,Bcc.
re :If we put them to the left, others will say, why clutter the prime side with secondary options.
They are cluttered on the right side and in the wrong place. The 'prime' side is adjacent to the TO, cc and Bcc.
Have you considered what happens when you have a longer FROM name and email address, this means in order to see that and the buttons, you will have to have a wider window, but if the same space is used for new functionality as is currently used then a greater width of window is not necessary.
Regarding the use of RED in font:
This is never a good idea and has been a serious problem and flaw in Thunderbird for decades. It is important to stop using red for the sake of 10% of men who suffer from various degrees of colour blindness. When I was learning about design decades ago, this was common knowledge that you did not use red on items like email addresses. Red should only be used if the user has full control over change of colour. I still see people asking for how to stop red font colour in eg: TO fields when typing addresses. Please take this into consideration whilst you are redigning this area.
Comment 237•4 years ago
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(In reply to Anje from comment #236)
Hi Anje, thanks for feedback!
It was me who wrote your initial quote, so let me reply. :-)
re :I do believe that the new layout is pretty much self-explaining
Sorry, but I disagree....No it isn't.
If the position of CC and BCC is your only worry, that means that the other 90% of the new layout is self-explaining. Even with CC and BCC I don't think anyone would fail to understand what they will do when you are looking for them...
Why is Cc and Bcc associated with the FROM by placing it to the right of 'FROM' ?
I hear you. There's a separator, so they are not meant to be associated as such. We've tried and discussed many possible positions, and users have requested that we push them more to the middle, so that's where they are now. It's a well-considered compromise position which has several advantages: clean layout, using up less space, allow focus on more important elements, better keyboard access, etc...
Also, there are many other ways of displaying CC/BCC which do NOT require the disclosure buttons on the right:
- right-click on selected items in To-field, then "Move to CC/BCC" from context menu.
- From contacts side bar, select recipients and use Add-to-CC/BCC buttons.
- We'll also implement some variant of bug 1616514, allowing users to start compositions with CC/BCC already open (per identity).
It is not logical by any stretch of the imagination. It certainly will be a headache for those who have an eyesight issue and cannot locate because they are not where expected.
That's a non-argument, honestly. Unexpected location is not an eyesight issue. If you have eyesight issues, we're striving to provide full accessibility for screen readers, but that's all we can do. In fact, by the current position we have optimized the focus ring for the basic case of a simple message with To-recipients so that it's less of a hassle to users with eyesight issues and screenreaders.
You can have the same buttons with same effect in the logical position on left, one above the other, next to the 'TO'.
Where they would use up more space and clutter the area with less used options.
Then it would be intuitive and users would only need to discover/learn the new functionality.
Learning the new position of two buttons isn't very hard imho. We didn't hide them.
In fact, they are now more exposed than before. In the old layout, having to change the type for each and every recipient from a dropdown which is typically hidden was not very intuitive, it's just that we all got used to it.
You will always need to use the TO/Cc anyway, so mouse is naturally focussed at start of TO on the left.
The mouse would only be to the right if needing to change the 'FROM' which is probably less used.re :I have never seen buttons to the far right. Been using mailers 35-40 years. Unix, windows, multiple other systems.
Well, the Google Web UI has them more far to the right than us, in their default compose UI... So we're NOT the lonely only one out there.
I completely agree with this statement.
I'm not aware of other email clients that would put TO and Bcc functionality buttons off top right of a FROM totally unassociated with the whereabouts of the actual TO,Cc,Bcc.
Hold on Anje, these are just disclosure buttons. After disclosure of CC/BCC rows, labels precede their row.
re :If we put them to the left, others will say, why clutter the prime side with secondary options.
They are cluttered on the right side and in the wrong place. The 'prime' side is adjacent to the TO, cc and Bcc.
Ah well...
Have you considered what happens when you have a longer FROM name and email address,
Yes. I have just tried it on half-screen size and there is no usability issue. Not for the short labels in en-US at least.
That's something to talk about. I like Google's solution where they just use the short English labels CC/BCC even for other localizations like German, to avoid long and clumsy "Kopie / Blindkopie".
But let's not forget that we're a desktop app so far, and screens are typically long horizontally.
this means in order to see that and the buttons, you will have to have a wider window, but if the same space is used for new functionality as is currently used then a greater width of window is not necessary.
I don't think that is true. If I understand you correctly, you'll have two columns for the recipient type labels, so that's using up more horizontal space than now.
Regarding the use of RED in font:
This is never a good idea and has been a serious problem and flaw in Thunderbird for decades. It is important to stop using red for the sake of 10% of men who suffer from various degrees of colour blindness. When I was learning about design decades ago, this was common knowledge that you did not use red on items like email addresses. Red should only be used if the user has full control over change of colour. I still see people asking for how to stop red font colour in eg: TO fields when typing addresses. Please take this into consideration whilst you are redigning this area.
Kindly file a separate bug if you think that's an issue. We're using red to mark erroneous pills, which looks like the only intuitive color for that.
I think it's customizable through adjusting the CSS, probably userChrome.css just like before. Not sure.
Bottom line:
I think compared to the massive overall benefits of the new recipients area (not explained in this comment), getting used to a slightly different position of CC/BCC disclosure buttons is a minor issue of adjusting your muscle memory.
Comment 238•4 years ago
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Comment 239•4 years ago
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Comment 240•4 years ago
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Let's please stop claiming that no other email interface has CC/BCC disclosure buttons on right side of the composition window. Gmail's are actually more to the right than ours. And only shown when focus is on Recipient area, as my previous screenshot shows.
(Sorry, something went wrong when filing the first screenshot).
Updated•4 years ago
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Comment 241•4 years ago
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(In reply to Thomas D. from comment #235)
It's unfortunate that the most relevant UX change of Thunderbird 78 has been associated with the wrong product (
MailNews Core
) all along without anyone taking notice, and hence many bugs cloned from here (and their subsequent clones) are also in the wrong product.
I can fix that en-mass after consulting Alex.
Can we make sure that at least it will be included in the release notes for TB78, because users won't read the release notes for TB73beta [1] where this landed? Thanks.
The ESR release notes are always compiled from all the previous beta notes (of which this bug is a part), which I think should address your concerns.
Comment 242•4 years ago
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re:Let's please stop claiming that no other email interface has CC/BCC disclosure buttons on right side of the composition window.
Agree, in gmail webmail, the image shows Cc and Bcc to the far right of the TO field. It is Not to the right of the FROM field and that is the point.
The improvement of a single click rather than current drop down was the original request for this bug meaning a reduction in unnecessary clicks which I've been a supporter of in the menu app icon (it currently does not follow the same 'single click' design idea as in this bug)
I'm not using beta, so this a question, i notice there is a >> insinuating there are more options eg: TO, Cc, Bcc, Reply-to. if you have a narrower window for whatever reason, does this mean you would have only >> visible?
So, is this not defeating the whole object of stopping a double click, just because the Cc and Bcc or other options (I'm assuming TO and Reply-To) can actually be hidden and you need to click just to see them ?
re :If I understand you correctly, you'll have two columns for the recipient type labels, so that's using up more horizontal space than now.
They are only buttons, so they do not need to be horizontal, they can be a vertical alignment, after all a drop down view has always worked. It would just mean the buttons would be visible one click options and not a drop down.
Or a single menu type button on left side of 'TO' which displays options on 'hover' (not click), so you can then do a single click on eg: Cc to get same functionality as the new design.
OR put all the TO, Cc, Bcc and Reply-To options on the Composition Toolbar, then users can customise as they like eg: Remove the 'Reply-to' because they already have this set up in Account Settings. They could have simple box icons with a 'T' for 'TO', 'C' for 'Cc', 'B' for 'Bcc' and 'R' for 'Reply-to', so if someone wishes to use only icons to use even less space.
Comment 243•4 years ago
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Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - Jesse Glessner
Just had an update of Thunderbird to 78.0.1 (32-bit) - AND THINGS HAVE CHANGED!! I’m running on Windows 7 PRO with plenty of RAM and I know my system is clean as I just this past weekend used MalwareBytes, SuperAntiSpyware, and Avast Premium AntiVirus software packages.
In TB I’m trying to FORWARD a message I noted that the “To:” button did not allow me to change to a “BCC”
I found the “To:”, “Bcc”, etc. buttons in the upper right corner and it did let me select a “Bcc” which appeared in the next field down, leaving the “To” field blank.
I filled in the “Bcc” field but could net get TB to allow more “Bcc” entries. I tried entering several times and nothing happened. I went back up to the upper right where I found the Button links and “Bcc” did not show in there.
Is there any possibility of getting this fixed somehow? I haven’t had problems in TB in a very long time and this definitely surprised me!
Comment 244•4 years ago
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There is not just one row per field type. You then comma separate the addresses when you want more than one.
Assignee | ||
Comment 245•4 years ago
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Hi Jesse,
The fields have been redesigned to allow users to input multiple addresses in the same row without the necessity of creating/removing rows.
In your BCC field, write an address and hit enter (or select it from the autocomplete if it's listed there).
After the address is entered and "converted" into a grey pill, keep typing another address. You can add as many addresses as you want in the same row.
If you have an address in another field, eg. To, and you want to move it to another field, you can either cut and paste the address pill, or right click on it and select "Move to..." from the context menu.
Comment 246•4 years ago
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(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #245)
Hi Jesse,
The fields have been redesigned to allow users to input multiple addresses in the same row without the necessity of creating/removing rows.
MRC Compose shows a message explaining this when the field is empty. You can see it in the screenshots here: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/mrc-compose/?src=ss
That addon has a number of clever and useful features worth checking out (only TB 68 and earlier, though)
Comment 247•4 years ago
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Can you clarify a point.
It is easy to add email addresses, select a bunch from Contact Pane and clickon 'add to bcc', all email addresses are added each in their own pill, but I notice there are no auto inserts of a comma, so is it longer necessary for user to enter the comma when adding more than one?
Comment 248•4 years ago
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Sorry, saved as draft and I can see the comma is now auto inserted.
However, If you choose to add an email address and then add a comma, when you start typing to add a second address the auto complete fails to work. I presume this is by design as comma is now auto added. Please confirm this is the case.
Comment 249•4 years ago
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(In reply to Anje from comment #248)
However, If you choose to add an email address and then add a comma,...
Instead of adding comma, press Enter key, this will convert email address into a pill, and allow you to type new email address afterwards with auto-complete running...
The comma is more used if you copy/paste list of email adresses from another program at once then press Enter to convert the list comma-separated into individual pills.
I think there were a discussion to make the typed comma act as Enter key (and convert address to pills) but it was decided not to for some reason or implemented later... but cannot recall reference about it... someone else may clarify on that ;-)
Comment 250•4 years ago
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(In reply to Richard Leger from comment #249)
(In reply to Anje from comment #248)
However, If you choose to add an email address and then add a comma,...
Instead of adding comma, press Enter key, this will convert email address into a pill, and allow you to type new email address afterwards with auto-complete running...
The comma is more used if you copy/paste list of email adresses from another program at once then press Enter to convert the list comma-separated into individual pills.
I think there were a discussion to make the typed comma act as Enter key (and convert address to pills) but it was decided not to for some reason or implemented later... but cannot recall reference about it... someone else may clarify on that ;-)
Comma does work to accept/ complete pill.
Comment 251•4 years ago
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(In reply to Anje from comment #248)
Thanks Anje for requesting confirmation on the exact patterns of creating recipient items (aka "pills") in the composition window, with a view on supporting end users correctly.
The following reflects my personal understanding and evaluation of the current design.
I've been involved in this, and I'm officially involved in support and documentation.
The small print of how (not) to create recipient pills in new Thunderbird addressing rows
- Recommended way to add new recipient from scratch (same as TB 68): Type, [select autocomplete result], press Enter -> pill is created. Type next, press Enter -> another pill. Simple! :-) Of course, copy and paste will also do the trick (see 4 below).
- Note: Commas between recipient pills are neither needed nor possible; the new design emphasizes recipients as items (more than plain text). In the message source, commas will be correctly added as required to separate recipients.
- Tolerated alternative: Tab works to confirm the best autocomplete match & create a recipient pill, so it's currently same as Enter (I have some reservations here, because tab is a navigation key, not a confirmation key. However, it's quite convenient...).
- Subject to change / discouraged until further notice: Typing comma currently also works to confirm autocomplete & create a pill. This is an experimental feature and bug 1642279 suggests that it is not sustainable, at least not for the "autocomplete-on-comma" part; maybe for typing full address and creating pill with comma. (I recommend against using "autocomplete-on-comma" because it may be removed at any time).
- Accepted use of comma: Pasting a comma-separated list of recipients into addressing rows, then pressing Enter/Tab to convert them into pills should work without fault.
- Discouraged/disfunctional uses of comma:
- Typing a comma after an existing recipient pill for the sake of separating recipient pills is not needed (see 1), prevents autocompletion, and it won't work correctly if you just want to create another pill.
- Starting a new recipient with a comma might be valid syntax, because comma in display name is legitimate, and we don't always expect quotes, so entering
,Paul <a@b.com>
will create a valid pill with",Paul " <a@b.com>
in source. Obviously discouraged, confusing and error-prone for users and mail clients. - There's a bug that typing comma prevents getting autocomplete suggestions (already in TB 68), probably because the autocomplete widget itself considers that a separator. So even after fixing the worst of bug 1642279, entering a known email address with comma in display name may not yet autocomplete.
Hth! ;-)
Comment 252•4 years ago
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I'm finding the new design to be very pretty and so easy to add recipients in various ways.
However, it comes with some irritating usability flaws.
The one huge advantage of the old design was the fact it was automatically in a listed type of view. This meant if you needed to scan down through to check recipients it was much easier as they were in listed form.
This was particulary important if using a mailing list.
AS you scanned down with mouse, the X (for delete) auto appeared and a simple single click removed that recipient from list.
It was very efficient and user friendly.
Under this new design, you have to play around with the width of the window to try to get one per line view which is a real nuisance and time waster as some email addresses with Display Name can be twice as long as others. Why this 'play with window width' method was considered the way to organise as a visible list is not really an acceptable method.
Now as you scan down there is no auto X appearing, so simple one click delete has been removed or perhaps when designed this aspect of use was not considered. Now each time you have to right click to get a drop down option and then select to delete OR left click and use backspace. The point is it is taking twice as much clicking, so hardly an improvement. From a business point of view, this part of the design slows down work throughput and increases clicking which is undesirable from a health point of view.
So basically the new design needs to be able to be quickly put into list mode without playing around with the width of the window and at the same time offer an auto X to appear in left column facilitating a quick delete from list. But if you can at least get it into list mode that would be a start.
I cannot find how to quickly achieve this. I cannot see anything under 'View' nor 'Customise' which does not seem to have anything I can drag onto toolbar to do this task.
What am I missing?
Comment 253•4 years ago
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Can I ask a question on what the developer included to perform the following:
If I wanted to change an email address currently in a TO field into a Cc field using keyboard.
Use Ctrl+tab to get into the TO field and use arrow keys to select
At this point I'm lost - what is the keyboard selection to get the drop down list to appear which you can select using right click?
Assignee | ||
Comment 254•4 years ago
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If you have a keyboard with the right-click shortcut key, just press that so you can select "Move to..."
This article shows other approaches to use a keyboard for right clicking: https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/right-click-keyboard-shortcut/
Otherwise, you can always CLTR+X to cut, then open the CC field, and CTRL+V to paste the addresses.
Comment 255•4 years ago
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Thanks Alessandro.
Comment 256•4 years ago
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(In reply to Anje from comment #252)
I'm finding the new design to be very pretty and so easy to add recipients in various ways.
Thanks! :-)
The one huge advantage of the old design was the fact it was automatically in a listed type of view. This meant if you needed to scan down through to check recipients it was much easier as they were in listed form.
We're exploring options to provide a single-column layout for recipients again in bug 1635207. Any comments there (if at all) should be as short as possible.
AS you scanned down with mouse, the X (for delete) auto appeared and a simple single click removed that recipient from list.
It was very efficient and user friendly.
You'll never get maximum efficiency with mouse. Apart from the lack of single-column mode (acknowledged), pls try this on keyboard:
- Use cursor
⯇
or⯈
to navigate through addresses, which auto-selects each recipient item. Just pressDEL
to remove a selected item. - To delete neighbouring items, you can even use consecutive DEL (forwards) or Backspace (backwards) keypresses which will also auto-select without requiring manual selection.
- You can even hold those deletion keys (say to delete 5th to 10th items forwards with
DEL
, or the 3rd to 1st backwards withBackspace
) and they'll stop fast-track deletion when you touch a boundary. If you deliberately pressDEL
orBackspace
again, it might delete an item or an empty CC/BCC input row again as appropriate (same as TB 68).
Now as you scan down there is no auto X appearing, so simple one click delete has been removed or perhaps when designed this aspect of use was not considered.
We carefully considered and removed single-click deletion: Permanent delete icons on every pill were a lot of visual clutter, taking up space.
That said, we appreciate constructive user feedback and Thunderbird is all about efficiency, so I have just filed Bug 1661438 and wrote up a patch to restore single-click deletion of recipient items using middle mouse button (similar to removing tabs in Firefox with middle-click)! How's that? :-)
Now each time you have to right click to get a drop down option and then select to delete OR left click and use backspace.
You could use keyboard (explained above) or right-click and press D
access key to delete (in en-US), and of course left-click, then DEL
key also works.
The point is it is taking twice as much clicking, so hardly an improvement. From a business point of view, this part of the design slows down work throughput and increases clicking which is undesirable from a health point of view.
Good points! Let's see if we can do Bug 1661438.
Please note that all selection/action patterns for multiple recipients are now radically more efficient, requiring up to 99% less clicks and key presses. Try deleting all recipients in TB 68 (50+ recipients...), then try Ctrl
+A
, Ctrl
+A
(sic, twice), DEL
in TB 78! :-)
Thanks for your feedback, Anje!
Comment 257•4 years ago
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Important notice
Please note that we now have updated documentation (currently en-US only) for the new addressing field:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email [English template version]
https://support.mozilla.org/kb/addressing-email [official link which redirects to localized versions; translations pending]
For any support questions beyond that article, please use:
https://support.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird
Comment 258•4 years ago
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(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #256)
(In reply to Anje from comment #252)
Now as you scan down there is no auto X appearing, so simple one click delete has been removed or perhaps when designed this aspect of use was not considered.
We carefully considered and removed single-click deletion: Permanent delete icons on every pill were a lot of visual clutter, taking up space.
That said, we appreciate constructive user feedback and Thunderbird is all about efficiency, so I have just filed Bug 1661438 and wrote up a patch to restore single-click deletion of recipient items using middle mouse button (similar to removing tabs in Firefox with middle-click)! How's that? :-)
Thomas, Alex,
Having contributed in the past to current pills design and after using it for a few months on a daily bases two major things seems missing:
- Delete pills with mouse over + one click (I will expand my view below from experience and natural expectation) - Please reconsider implementing this feature which I agree with Anje from daily use is missing. Especially on windows and laptop users using a trackpad.
- drag and drop of pill(s) - already under implementation in a separate bug.
My suggestion:
I agree that to avoid clutter the cross icon to delete a pill shall not always be visible... but when mouse over the pill the icon shall appear as a small overlay (align to the right) as well as a three-dot vertical (or hirizontal or burger menu) to reach the right click options via left click on menu icon) something like:
(name@domain.com) <-- default display - no mouse over
(name@domai [=|x] ) <-- mouse over display - small minimal menu appears - the x icon allowing to delete in one click - the = menu icon allowing to access more option - same as right click on pills -
the look and feel would be at you discretion of course... the above is just a proof of concept... but may look good ;-)
And if you have many pills only the moused over one would show icons...
(name@domain.com) (name@domain.com) (name@domai [=|x] ) (name@domain.com) (name@domain.com) (name@domain.com)
The middle click is not much used by average Windows users nor I know how to do it on laptop tracpad! (my bad) - not much intuitive but I am sure Linux users may love it for a quicker click delete ;-)
The additional solution above has many advantages, it keep clutter at minimum while allowing quick one click deletion, it is simple self explanatory and intuitive... especially for those that click... a lot ;-) or new comers to email client software.
Everyone is different some users use keyboard, some use mouse, some use both... so why not to polish the compose windows recipient (probably one of the most important feature in TB) to make it user friendly to all :-)
I wish you may reconsider...
Assignee | ||
Comment 259•4 years ago
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Thanks for raising these points.
I'd say this is worth exploring and doing some quick interactive prototyping to see how it feels and looks during simulated real life interaction.
Let's open a dedicated bug for that and continue the conversation there.
We should try to stop adding comments to this bug :D
Comment 260•4 years ago
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(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #257)
Important notice
Please note that we now have updated documentation (currently en-US only) for the new addressing field:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email
For any support questions beyond that article, please use:
https://support.mozilla.org/de/products/thunderbird
Actually already translated to the languages shown below https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email/show_translations
Note when posting a link to the SUMO site knowledge base, remove the locale identifier unless you want the person selecting the link to be directed to a specific language version. So that link I placed above should properly be posted as https://support.mozilla.org/kb/addressing-email/show_translations Based on the browser's locale the language will be selected or an English version served if there is no translation.
English (en-US)
বাংলা (bn)
Čeština (cs)
Dansk (da)
Deutsch (de)
Español (es)
suomi (fi)
Français (fr)
Italiano (it)
日本語 (ja)
한국어 (ko)
Nederlands (nl)
Polski (pl)
Português (do Brasil) (pt-BR)
Português (Europeu) (pt-PT)
Русский (ru)
slovenščina (sl)
中文 (简体) (zh-CN)
Comment 261•4 years ago
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(In reply to Matt from comment #260)
Actually already translated to the languages shown below https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email/show_translations
Actually NOT yet translated to any other language, exactly as I said. show_translations is lying to you because the TB78 en-US template version for this article has not yet been released for translations. Please compare the contents. All those translations are still the old version of the article, where the second headline involves Google. I have fully rewritten the article for TB78, added 12 new screenshots, the Google section is gone, many new sections added, and the new version so far is ONLY available in en-US, hence I used the hard en-US link (but thanks for pointing that out anyway).
Comment 262•4 years ago
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(In reply to ni?thomas8 by Richard Leger from comment #258)
Richard, good point about laptop trackpads which don't have an explicit middle button, so using Bug 1661438 is tricky for them. I guess you could always connect a 3-button mouse if you really need that. Many trackpads also allow emulating the middle button (similar to emulating the right button), e.g. as 3-finger-tap.
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/26552/stupid-geek-tricks-use-both-laptop-mouse-buttons-to-simulate-middle-click/
Yes, extra icons on hover is another way. Makes the UI more nervous. Error-prone if delete icon suddenly appears under your mouse where before you'd see just a plain pill which you want to select; we had that in TB68 on the recipient type selector and users hated that. But there are other ways of "reveal-on-hover", outside the pill, like to the right (overlapping the next pill which you have not hovered), or below. As Alex said, we cannot explore the details here, needs another bug.
(In reply to Alessandro Castellani (:aleca) from comment #259)
Thanks for raising these points.
I'd say this is worth exploring and doing some quick interactive prototyping to see how it feels and looks during simulated real life interaction.
Let's open a dedicated bug for that and continue the conversation there.
+1
We should try to stop adding comments to this bug :D
Wouldn't enforce it (yet), but worth a try :D
Comment 263•4 years ago
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@ Thomas I have released it now as you pointed it out to me. Hopefully, we can do better next time. I do not spend much time on kb issues, but if thigs are drawn to my attention I do try and correct them
Updated•4 years ago
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Comment 264•4 years ago
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(In reply to Matt from comment #263)
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email
Thomas I have released it now [for translation] as you pointed it out to me.
Awesome, thank you, Matt! I have requested SUMO reviewing rights a while back but they have not yet materialized...
Updated•4 years ago
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Updated•4 years ago
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Comment 266•4 years ago
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Is it too much to ask for a small font line with a similar structure of the text:
"Total: 340 (To: 100, Cc: 100, Bcc: 140)"
?
Comment 267•4 years ago
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(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto [:marcoagpinto] from comment #266)
Is it too much to ask for a small font line with a similar structure of the text:
"Total: 340 (To: 100, Cc: 100, Bcc: 140)"
?
Please provide a dedicated RFE with details, scenario, maybe UI mockup. This isn't quite the right place in comment 266. As a general guide, we prefer a clean and simple UI, so you'd probably have to propose a way of tucking that information away, say in an 🛈 icon on the header, status bar, tooltip, context menu or some such.
Comment 268•4 years ago
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(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #267)
(In reply to Marco A.G.Pinto [:marcoagpinto] from comment #266)
Is it too much to ask for a small font line with a similar structure of the text:
"Total: 340 (To: 100, Cc: 100, Bcc: 140)"
?Please provide a dedicated RFE with details, scenario, maybe UI mockup. This isn't quite the right place in comment 266. As a general guide, we prefer a clean and simple UI, so you'd probably have to propose a way of tucking that information away, say in an 🛈 icon on the header, status bar, tooltip, context menu or some such.
I believe we just need an empty line below the pills TO, Cc and Bcc with this information in a small font.
EDIT: Maybe using an 🛈 icon.
Updated•3 years ago
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Description
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